Snape's death scene

[jkoney65]

No: HPFGUIDX 174329

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...>
wrote:
>
> Carol earlier:
> >snip>
> > > It has nothing whatever to do with poor planning. Dumbledore has
> told him not to deliver the message until he sees Voldemort
protecting
> the snake, and until now, the snake has not been protected.
> >
> >
> > Jack-A-Roe:
> > First off I must say I was wrong when I said Snape didn't have his
> wand out. It was apparently in his hand the entire time and he did
> raise it.
> >
> > You are exactly right when you say it's not about his cover. That
> point is over. He sees the snake being protected and knows he must
get
> his message to Harry.
> >
> > As a double agent his life is in constant jeopardy. Which means
that
> he has to be ready to defend himself and have a way out of every
> situation that he walks into. Being called to Voldemort during the
> battle should have raised a red flag.
>
> Carol:
> How so? Voldemort has actually told him to watch out for Harry
Potter,
> who is on his way to Hogwarts. He knows that Voldemort has no doubts
> about his loyalty. He's Voldemort's righthand man; he's fooled him
> time and again with lies and Occlumency and is perfectly capable of
> sustaining the pretence;


Jack-A-Roe:
Being called away from the battle is not a common occurrence, so he at least should have been wondering why. He doesn't know "for sure" that Voldemort has no doubts. His life as a double agent precludes him from ever being sure that he is safe.

I've agreed that he didn't know about Nagini until he arrived and
I'll agree that he didn't know anything about the wands.

My next point is still valid.

> Jack-A-Roe:
> Voldemort's speech should have had him working his way toward an
exit.
> When I say he failed to plan I mean he didn't have a way out of the
> shack. He could never plan for every contingency but he should have
> had something in mind.
> >
> > His life is in danger and all he can do is raise his wand and do
> nothing. This is right after Voldemort tells him that "While you
> live, Severus, the Elder Wand cannot be truly mine."
> >
> > At that point he should have started throwing curses and working
his
> way out the door. Voldemort just said he was going to kill him.
After
>  all he still has a mission to finish. Instead I believe he froze
up
> under the threat, knowing he was going to fail in his mission.
> >
> > To me this is a great contrast to Harry who always fights til the
end.
>
> Carol responds:
> You're forgetting one key thing. Snape knows that he can't fight
> Voldemort, whether or not the Elder Wand is working; if he does,
he'll
> be killed instantly without delivering his message. (Have you
> forgotten the scene where Voldemort kills everyone in the room
except
> the fleeing Malfoys and Bellatrix because of a message delivered by
a
> goblin?) If Snape raises his wnad, he's dead. (Yes, he could fight
any
> other wizard in the WW and win, but this is Voldemort.) And he knows
> that he can't kill Voldemort because of the soul piece in Harry's
> scar. The only way for Voldemort to be destroyed is for Harry to let
> himself be killed because the soul bit in his scar makes Voldemort
> immortal. Delivering that urgent message is the only thing on
Snape's
> mind. That and the snake in the bubble telling him that it's time.
He
> thinks he's going to die without delivering it and that all is lost.
> He doesn't care about dying in and of itself. Sparing his own life
is
> not important. Delivering the message is.

Jack-A-Roe:
Why would Snape be instantly killed if he raises his wand? You've
said in prior posts what a great wizard he is. I remember the scene
where he killed a bunch of people. Did any of them defend themselves?

Neville charged him and was disarmed and immobilized. McGonnagal,
Shacklebolt, and Slughorn fight him. Yes, there were three but one of
them had to start by themselves. They knew nothing about the wand and
they still fought.

But Snape, according to your argument has to complete his mission, he
can't fight because he will be killed even though there is a chance
he could survive to find Harry, decides to do nothing and be killed
without even trying to complete his mission.


Carol:
 He had every reason to fear, but it was his
> message, not his life, that he feared for. He could not fight, he
> could not run, and he would not beg for Voldemort's nonexistent
mercy,
> which in any case would not have availed him. And in the end, he did
> not fail. He helped to defeat Voldemort, finding a way to deliver
his
> message that no one could have anticipated, so that Harry understood
> that his scar was the last Horcrux and that he must face Voldemort
> without fighting, willing to die, as Snape did, for the greater
good.

Jack-A-Roe:
I guess we just see the scene differently. It's not that he could not
fight and escape it's that he did not fight and try to escape. And he
would have failed in his mission, and I'm sure that was going through
his head, until Harry arrived.