Part 7: Death and Resurrection

[Geoff Bannister]

No: HPFGUIDX 174419

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Hans Rieuwers" <hansandrea1 at ...> wrote:

Hans Andréa:
> May I draw the attention to members to post No. 163788, which I sent 
> on January 15th this year? It's reproduced in full underneath.
> 
> I'd be the first to admit that my predictions didn't come true 100%. 
> However I feel unashamed in owning up to this post and saying 
> that "Deathly Hallows" turned out to symbolise exactly what I said it 
> would in the post underneath.
> 
> "Deathly Hallows was about death and resurrection. Harry went through 
> the Gate of Saturn and returned. In "Deathly Hallows" the Gate of 
> Saturn is called "King's Cross" - a very symbolic name indeed. It 
> turned out not to be the arch with the veil, but the symbolism is 
> nevertheless just as clear.
> 
> Although Harry did not become Keeper of the Keys, he did have the 
> choice at King's Cross of going "on" or returning to save the world 
> from Voldemort. That is the choice I was looking for there.
> 
> And Harry did not kill Voldemort. Voldemort did that himself because 
> of Lily's love flowing in his veins.
> 
> On the surface "Harry Potter" is often mundane and even banal, but if 
> we look at the symbolism it is ineffably sublime. I believe Jo is the 
> radio that is attuned to a divine frequency.

Geoff:
We have discussed and disagreed on this in the past. Although I 
respect your right to express your own views and beliefs about the 
books, I do take issue that you are attempting to integrate your ideas 
with the basic tenets of the Christian faith and I suspect that many 
Christians on this group would agree with my objections.

Hans Andréa:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Hans Andréa <hansandrea1@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > To me it is obvious that Harry Potter is about death and 
> resurrection. In fact, Parts 1-6 abound in symbols and events of 
> resurrection from death.    
> >   In Part 1 Harry goes down past Fluffy (Cerberus) into the 
> underworld, where he is attacked by Quirrell, who is possessed by 
> Voldemort.  Harry falls unconscious, and wakes up after three days to 
> see Dumbledore smiling at him. He had just got to Harry in time. A 
> symbolic death and resurrection.
> >    
> >   In Part 2 Harry goes into the underworld again, but this time he 
> is fatally poisoned by a basilisk fang. He is literally pulled from 
> death by phoenix tears. A symbolic death and resurrection.
> >    
> >   In Part 3 Harry is on the point of having his soul sucked out by 
> a Dementor when a Patronus sent by his future self saves him. Death 
> and resurrection.
> >    
> >   In Part 4 Harry has the Avada Kedavra curse cast at him for the 
> second time. He is saved by his own immense willpower, which is 
> greater than Voldemort's. Death and resurrection.
> >    
> >   In Part 5 Harry is possessed by Voldemort. He saves himself by 
> driving out Voldemort with Harry's love for Sirius. Death and 
> resurrection.
> >    
> >   In Part 6 Harry is dragged into the water by the inferi, but 
> Dumbledore saves him with his circle of fire. Death and resurrection.

Geoff:
The problem is that, in each of the parts, there is no death or 
resurrection. Although brought close to death, Harry does not die, 
therefore, he is not resurrected.

Hans Andréa: 

<snip>

> >   One of the most obvious clues in Harry Potter is the similarity 
> of Harry's basic story to that of Jesus:
> >    
> >   A prophecy is made that a baby will be born who will change the 
> world. The baby is born and a star appears to announce his birth. 
> When the king of this world hears about the birth he tries to have 
> the baby killed, but fails. The child grows up in wisdom and in 
> stature, and in favour with God and man. He performs miracles at a 
> young age. But as he grows older he knows he will have to meet his 
> arch-enemy: Satan.
> >    
> >   We all know that story - that's the story of Jesus. But it's also 
> the story of Harry Potter. 

<snip>

Geoff:
With respect, the story of Jesus as you term is also the history of a 
real person. Harry's story is just  that - a story.
    
Hans Andréa:
> >   The story is basically so similar to that of Jesus we can easily 
> see that it will end the same way as Jesus' story. Just as Jesus died 
> to save the world, so Harry will lay down his life for the wizarding 
> world. But just as Jesus rose from the dead after three days, so will 
> Harry. 

<snip>

Geoff: 
But again, you are trying to combine two elements - one real and one 
fictional. As a Christian, I believe that, in common with other believers, 
I had a life-changing experince of God when I asked Jesus into my life 
and I believe that his Spirit lives within me. That does not turn me into 
an angel or a superior being - far from it; I become very conscious of 
my shortcomings and attempt to be Christ-like in the way I live my life.

To draw parallels between Jesus Christ and Harry. let us consider the 
following, based on Christian belief:

Jesus is divine - God in human form. Harry is human.

Jesus is immortal. Harry isn't.

Jesus is sinless. Harry certainly isn't. :-)

Jesus died on the cross and rose again to bring forgiveness of sins 
of mankind because of the above mentioned criteria. Harry cannot 
even gain forgiveness of his own sins unless he approaches Jesus 
as his Saviour.

Remember I said that these are what a Christian would believe. I 
accept that there are group members who would not agree with me 
because they hold a different view of the world.  I am nor trying to 
force my views on them,  just to draw attention that I think that 
Hans' thoughts, expressed above will not sit easily with others who 
have shared my experiences.

Just extrapolating your thoughts about death and resurrection to 
Book 7, I do not believe personally that Harry died or was resurrected 
here either - again these are just my own interpretation.

I believe that in the "real" Wizarding world, there is no break in time 
between the end of Chapter 34 "The Forest Again"  and the beginning 
of Chapter 36 "The Flaw in the Plan". The action seems to go straight on; 
there is no sense of time having passed during the "Kings Cross" chapter. 
I have previously written that I believe Harry is in some form of extra-
terrestrial place. I am reminded of Star Trek DS9 when Sisko meets with 
the Prophets of Bajor if you know the series and he seems to be removed 
from time into a where he is surrounded by mist - maybe JKR is a Trek fan?

It takes place in an instant.

'A long time later or maybe no time at all, it came to him that he must exist...'
(DH "King's Cross" p.565 UK edition)

Then again, when he takes his leave of Dumbledore, the following exchange 
occurs:

'"Tell me one last thing," said Harry. "Is this real? Or has this been happening 
inside my head?"
Dumbledore beamed at him and his voice sounded loud and strong in Harry's 
ears even though the bright mist was descending again, obscuring his figure.
"Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry but why on earth should 
that mean that it is not real?"'
(ibid. p.579)

Hence, I do not see Harry being involved personally with death and resurrection 
throughout the series. Much as I love Harry as a character and identify with him 
when I recall my own teenage years, he is of the same stuff that we are: loving, 
angry, thoughful, rash, uncrtain, brash and in need of guidance as to how to 
get the best out of what life has dealt him.