Dumbledore/Grindelwald duel

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 174545

va32h wrote:
> 
> Here's my take: 
> 
> First,the wand is only unbeatable if you are dueling to the death. 
> 
> According to the legend (and yes I know that Dumbledore discounts
the legend, but we also know that Dumbledore isn't always right) - the
Hallows were gifts from Death. Death, who was irritated that the 
three brothers had defied him. Death, who wanted to trick the 
brothers, so he could have their souls anyway. 
> 
> So the oldest brother wants a wand that will never lose in a duel -
to the death. Which doesn't mean the owner of the wand can't be 
killed (just killed in non-dueling methods) and is also doesn't mean 
the owner can't lose a duel - if the intent of the opponent is not to
cause death. 
> 
> Grindelwald did not try to kill Gregorovitch, merely stunned him. 
> Dumbledore did not try to kill Grindelwald, merely to capture and 
> imprison him. <snip>

Carol responds:

I agree with this interpretation except for one thing. I think that
Dumbledore surprised Grindelwald, who was expecting fancy, powerful
spells, by using Expelliarmus. So he captured and kept the wand,
defeating Grindelwald without killing him.

Expelliarmus, as I understand it, does not alter a wand's allegiance
when the wand is returned to its owner, only when it's used to defeat
him. The kids in the DA can use it against each other because they're
not really fighting each other, and even Snape using it against
Lockhart in the Duelling Club doesn't change the wand's allegiance
because he doesn't take and keep Lockhart's wand. (What might have
happened if Harry had found Lockhart's wand after using Expelliarmus
to send it out the window is more complicated and I won't get into it
here.)

In any case, I think we have some canon to back up the hypothesis that
DD beat GG using Expelliarmus. Lupin, in shoot-to-kill mode, expresses
surprise that Harry would use Expelliarmus against Stan Shunpike. He
says that Harry's use of Expelliarmus against LV in the graveyard
"under imminent threat of death" was "a very unusual move," and he
adds that "the Death Eaters--frankly, most people!--would have
expected you to attack back " (71). Grindelwald, showing off his stuff
to DD and expecting him to do the same (I don't think they wanted to
kill each other even though they certainly wanted to defeat each
other) would not have anticipated such a move, either.

Expelliarmus defeats Voldemort in the graveyard, it transfers the
allegiance of Draco's wand to Harry (as it would not have done, IMO,
if Harry had given it back--not that he would have done so under the
circumstances), and it defeats Voldemort in the final battle.

Carol, appreciating the delicious irony that it's Snape who taught
Harry his "signature spell"

"