Harry using Crucio (was: Code of the Playground) And Other Stuff, Too

[va32h]

No: HPFGUIDX 174666

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "eggplant107" <eggplant107 at ...> 
wrote:
> The part of your post that confuses me is that you are not disgusted
> with Harry you are disgusted with JKR, you are disgusted with a  
>writer for pointing out a very real danger that can occur if you 
>fight evil too intensely for too long. That Harry could experience 
>what he has and done nothing worse than aim one Crucio at a monster 
>and be grumpy with his friends a few times is remarkable. 

va32h:

But she doesn't point anything out - she just glosses over it. It's a 
non-issue. Harry using Crucio is not depicted as the dangerously result 
of fighting evil too intensely for too long - it's depicted as a 
gallant and triumphant gesture. 

>From Dennis Grant:
It is entirely possible Harry spent more than a few nightmare-wracked
nights agonizing over that decision; we don't know. JKR doesn't tell us.

va32h:

No, she didn't tell us. She put this act the end of the book, when 
there was no time for any reckoning. I would say that JKR never 
intended, or saw the need to address how Harry felt about using Crucio, 
because it's a non-issue for her. When specifically asked in her web 
chat "did Harry ever come to regret that choice" she ignored the 
question and dismissed the entire topic with "Harry is not a saint." 

On to other topics:

>From Alla:
So, was it wrong for Snape to use AK? I mean, if one unforgivable
spell can be NOT unforgivable sometimes, why the others cannot?

va32h:

Yes it was wrong for Snape to use the AK. But again - the issue (for 
me) has never been whether it is right or wrong to have the "good" 
characters use these curses, but whether the characters should use 
them, and not care that they've used them. 

I would argue that Snape's look of revulsion and hatred shows that he 
cares (and isn't happy) about having to use AK to kill Dumbledore. I 
can't imagine that Dumbledore *planned* to have Snape blast him off the 
Astronomy tower, in front of many witnesses, and with a gaggle of DEs 
running loose in the tower. At least that doesn't seem to fit with the 
dignified death DD asks Snape to help him achieve. So Snape didn't 
expect to have to use the AK, but did so because it was the "best" 
thing to do for a variety of reasons. 

Of course being as it's Snape, his actions can always be viewed in a 
wholly different light. Perhaps he really hates and is disgusted with 
Dumbledore. However, given that JKR uses the same description of Harry 
feeding Dumbledore the potion in the cave a few pages back, I think we 
are meant to see the two acts as similar.

So between Snape's look of disgust when using the AK, and his later 
refusal to use Unforgiveables in the rest of the book, and in DH, I 
would conclude that Snape does not use UC's casually, or with ease or 
enjoyment. 

Which brings me to:
Christy:
>Based on Harry's experiences with Imperius and I think Rosemerda's (I 
>don't have my copy of HBP with me, so I admittedly can't be sure of 
>that), and based on the fact that some wizards claimed they were under 
>Imperious during Voldemort's first rise to power, there seems to be a 
>certain awareness of being under Imperious -- at least after the fact 
(and in the case of someone who can resist it, like Harry, awareness 
>during the fact). Snape couldn't very well have Dung remembering that 
>he talked to Snape and got the idea of using decoys from him. 
>So, in this case, the Confundus Charm was more appropriate than the 
>Imperius Curse whether or not Snape might have wanted to use and 
>regardless of being an "Unforgiveable."

va32h:

I don't seen any canon that the Imperiused are aware of being under the 
spell. The one example we are given of a character claiming to be 
Imperiused is Lucius Malfoy, and clearly he was a liar, liar pants on 
fire!

However, the Imperiused do have a telltale "look" about them, the 
blankness in their eyes. Mad Eye would certainly be able to spot 
that "look" in Mundungus and wouldn't listen to a word he says. 

Of course that begs the question - how did Malfoy get away with 
claiming Imperius when he wasn't. I would guess lots and lots of 
bribes, which seems to be how he gets everything done. 

And of course - being as it's Snape, everything he does can be 
interpreted at least two ways. He may have declined to use Imperius for 
practical or moral considerations, or a combination of both. 

va32h