The Message of DH - Moral Superiority

[Charles Walker Jr]

No: HPFGUIDX 174809

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "nitalynx" <nitalynx at ...> wrote:
>
> Charles wrote:
> 
> > If you think that Harry's self-sacrifice was atypical, then you
> > haven't been paying attention. He's shown a willingness to sacrifice
> > himself since book 1. 
> 
> Nita replies:
> 
> If he has, then it seems to me like there's been no real personal
> growth for the hero of our growing up story. That's rather sad.
> However, let's take a look at each of your examples...
> 
> 
> > His concern for his near death experience was
> > that the stone not fall into Voldemort's hands. 
> 
> 
> Well, naturally. Keeping the stone away from Voldemort was the
> objective of his self-imposed mission. If Voldie had got it due to
> Harry's intervention, it would have been a failure of epic proportions.
> 
Charles:
Actually, I think that it is a lot less of a growing up story rather
than a story in which Harry grows up. A fine line, to be sure, but I
believe it is there. It seemed for multiple books that it was a coming
of age story. What it has become after DH may well be something else
entirely.

As far as Harry's self-imposed mission, I think Voldemort would have
found another way around the protection the mirror provided if Harry
had not been there. This *is* the most powerful dark wizard ever we
are talking about here. 
> 
> > Book 2, he's dying
> > from his wounds, but his concern is to tell Ginny how to get to
> > safety. 
> 
> 
> Er, he's dying. What else is there to do? And again, if both of them
> got killed, it would have been a double failure for his rescue mission.
> 
Charles:
Yes, what else is there to do. They could have tried to get another
teacher to go down into the chamber, yet they went themselves. His
concern is not for his dying, but for the living. 
> 
> > Book 3, he charges into battle with dementors to save Sirius.
> 
> 
> Right. Charges, not walks to them and waits for a Kiss. Fighting a
> dangerous battle and willingly letting yourself be killed are two very
> different things, IMO.
> 
Charles:
He's willing to face his greatest fear for someone else. Courageous
and not real "selfish" in my opinion.
> 
> > Book 5, he's willing to give up the WW to keep everyone safe from him
> > when he thinks he's being posessed by Voldemort. 
> 
> 
> Now this is similar to what he did in DH, I agree. So we do have one
> precedent. Just like the one precedent of trying to use Crucio that we
> also got in book 5. Interesting :)
> 
> 
> > Book 6, he wants to
> > save DD from drinking the potion. 
> 
> 
> He wants to, but he doesn't. Questioning authority isn't all that fun
> when the authority is someone you like, I suppose. In book 6, DD tells
> Harry not to endanger himself in the cave, so Harry doesn't. In the
> next book DD tells him to go get himself killed, so Harry does.
> 
> 
> > Then he breaks it off with Ginny
> > because he doesn't want harm to come to her.
> 
> 
> Eh, sorry, but giving up snogging for a while and giving up your life
> don't quite match in scale, I think.
> 
Charles:
Perhaps not in scale, but certainly in kind. It is a sacrifice he
chooses to make for her sake, not his.

> All in all, I think Harry was wrong when he compared his own sacrifice
> to his mother's. He did it because it was the only way to win the
> fight. It was a well-planned (by DD) tactical move. She did it
> because... well, she couldn't bear to stand back and watch her child
> get killed, I suppose. And now, when we know that James didn't even
> have a wand (which I think was stupid, even if Voldie agrees), I don't
> see how what he did was less of a sacrifice.
> 
Charles: I agree with you on a few points here. Yes, James also made a
sacrifice. Lily's sacrifice is the one spoken of the most because she
is the one who has living relatives for the protection of the blood
sacrifice to continue. I also agree that Harry's sacrifice was not
like Lily's in that it did not provide the protection to the people of
Hogwarts that Lily's sacrifice gave him. I think that the real defeat
of Voldemort was in the wand and Harry's sacrifice was just to rid him
of the Voldie bit. It does not make it any less of a sacrifice, nor
does it make it out of character for Harry to have done it. 
> 
> > Hmmm. Yeah, he questions authority, searches for the truth, and fights
> > against evil. Not someone to emulate at all.
> 
> 
> But without someone like Voldie, who practically has a huge neon
> "EVIL" sign hovering over his head, these qualities just produce a
> very curious anarchist, IMO. There's nothing wrong with them, but
> nothing inherently moral either. Here's a question for you: does the
> average kamikaze bomber think he's fighting for or against evil? :)
> 
Charles:
Interesting that you should phrase it that way, as I am a very curious
anarchist myself. I'm going to leave the RW hot potato alone here, and
just ennumerate some more of Harry that I find admirable. He's
reasonably loyal to his friends (everyone has their breaking point),
he's kind to the vast majority of people he interacts with, and he
even tries to protect those who have been immeasurably cruel to him. I
guarantee you, If someone had treated me the way the Dursleys treated
Harry, my last act before leaving them would *NOT* be to get them
safely in hiding from the terror that could befall them, it would be
to make damn sure that they got everything that was coming to them.  

Charles, who can't think of a catchy signature right now.