Harry's struggle with death and other matters (long) (Was: Requiescat in Pace)

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 174845

lizzyben wrote:
<snip> 
> I've really struggled to figure out *what*, exactly, was the theme
of this series. What was JKR trying to say? Why did she write 7 books
about this? 

Carol responds:
Good question, one I'm trying to get us to explore. Ideas, anyone?

Lizzyben:
> Based on the epilogue, it seems like it was intended to have a
simple message of good brave Gryfindors beat the bad guys. Is that
worth a series? These novels do not seem Christian to me, in the sense
of embracing tolerance, forgiveness, non-judgment etc. There's a
distinctly Old Testament flavor to the books.

Carol responds:
Maybe. Or how about "not my will but thy will be done," if we want to
deal with Harry as Christ figure (not Christ!). However, you seem to
be unwilling to accept at face value Harry's statement that Snape was
probably the bravest man he ever knew, so I don't know what else to
say. It's there, the most important moment in the epilogue (along with
Teddy Lupin, the orphan who did not become an "abandoned boy"). As for
tolerance, I believe that's a modern or postmodern virtue, not a
Christian one specifically. (It's certainly promoted in schools today
along with multiculturalism, at least in the U.S.)  Forgiveness,
however, *is* a Christian virtue and is exemplified by Harry's
forgiveness of Snape (and to a lesser degree, the cessation of his
rivalry with Draco). Please look again at Harry's public vindication
of Snape and contrast it with his hatred of Snape and his view of him
as evil until he encounters the Pensieve memories. Self-sacrifice and
love are also Christian virtues, as are hope and faith. Death is not
the end; it's the beginning. The soul is eternal. It does not die with
the body.

Moreover, the WW *has* changed. Muggle-borns and "blood traitors" are
no longer being sent to Azkaban; Death Eaters are no longer at large,
killing and torturing at will, nor are they in charge of the Ministry.
The WW has been cleansed and normalcy restored. And there's just
enough difference between Severus Snape's first encounter with two
nasty little Gryffindor's and Harry's first encounter with a nasty
little Slytherin and Harry's words to Albus Severus about Snape and
Slytherin to indicate a glimmer of reconciliation. Bravery is not
confined to Gryffindor; Slytherins can be heroes. It's okay to be
placed in Slytherin, which is no longer a hotbed for budding Death
Eaters, an extinct species. There's room for hope and progress and
reconciliation, and the Sorting Hat is not (IMO) going to stop
preaching unity until it happens. A house (or school) divided against
itself cannot stand.

A little canon might help with regard to Snape and forgiveness:

Harry, missing Dumbledore's advice and thinking that he might have
expected to live for centuries like Nicholas Flamel, thinks (as
paraphrased by the narrator), "If so, he had been wrong. Snape had
seen to that. Snape, the sleeping snake, who had struck at the top of
the tower" (DH Am. ed. 279, ellipses changed to periods for
readability). I'm sure I don't need to point out that the narrator is
not exactly reliable here and that this view of events is contradicted
on all counts by the Pensieve memory. Harry wants nothing more than to
meet Snape, not to seek conciliation (reconciliation not being
possible, as they were never friends) or to extend forgiveness, but to
avenge DD's "murder." (that he's no match for snape in a duel never
enters the equation.)

Once Harry has entered Snape's mind, reaching an understanding of him
that need not be stated because his epiphany emerges in tandem with
the reader's (and because Harry has also learned, thanks to Snape's
last act, that he has to sacrifice himself, a rather more pressing
matter to him at the moment) we get Harry's view of himself and
Severus and Tom (whom DD earlier wanted him to pity) as "the abandoned
boys," surely empathy if not forgiveness. And we get Harry's Snape
speech to Voldemort, the DA, the Order, the DEs, the staff and some of
the students of Hogwarts, even the people of Hogsmeade:

"Severus Snape wasn't yours [Voldemort's]. He was Dumbledore's,
dumbledore's from the moment you started hunting down my mother. . . .
Snape's Patronus was a doe, the same as my mother's, because he loved
her for nearly all of his life. . . . [H]e was Dumbledore's spy from
the moment you threatened her, and he's been working against you ever
since!" (740-41). He also tells Voldemort that DD was already dying
when Snape "finished him" and that DD chose his own manner of dying
and arranged it with "the man you thought was your servant" months
before he died (same pages). If that is not a 180-degree volte face, I
have never seen one.
> 
lizzyben:
> <snip> It seems like Harry's voluntary embrace of death was meant to
be a courageous act of self-sacrifice, dying for our sins, redeeming
the Wizarding World. But the problem is, dying is not a struggle for
Harry - it's what he's been trained to do. DD has been brainwashing
Harry into becoming a martyr for his cause since Harry first arrived
at Hogwarts. So when Harry obediently trots off to his death, called
by the siren's song of dead loved ones, it felt less like a triumphant
act of bravery, and more like a submission to DD's manipulations. <snip>

Carol:
Dumbledore's manipulations are part of the opposite process to the
vindication of Snape. The whole Ariana/Grindelwald subplot in
combination with the Dumbledore we see in Snape's memories, to whom he
remained loyal even after he "knew" they were protecting Harry as a
pig to the slaughter, serves to show that Dumbledore, the arch
Gryffindor, is not nearly as perfect and saintly as Elphias Doge
thinks him--and not nearly as brave as the man who repeatedly placed
himself in mortal peril for him and for Lily, Severus Snape.

As for Harry not struggling with death, can you please quote a passage
to show where this view is coming from? I see the complete opposite.
Harry has thought since DD revealed the Prophecy to him in OoP that he
would either have to "murder" Voldemort or "be murdered" by him. Now
he has to go like a lamb (a more Christian metaphor than Snape's
"pig") to the slaughter, giving himself up to Dumbledore's will and
the "greater good." He sees Dumbledore as having "betrayed" him (and
the scene has been carefully set up via the Pensieve memory to make
this view seem correct). There is no doubt that at this moment, at
least, Dumbledore has manipulated him, but that does not rob Harry of
a choice. This is the ultimate test of what is right vs. what is easy.

Let's look at the canon, shall we?

First, the unreliable narrator again: "Finally, the truth. Lying with
his face pressed into the dusty carpet of the office where he had once
thought that he was learning the secrets of victory, Harry understood
at last that he was not supposed to survive" (691). This view is, of
course, corrected in "King's Cross," but we're looking at what Harry
feels, what Harry faces, as he chooses to face Voldemort for what he
thinks is the last time.

"He felt his heart pounding fiercely in his chest. How strange that
*in his dread of death*, it pumped all the harder, valiantly keeping
him alive. But it would have to stop, and soon. . . . *Terror* washed
over him as he lay on the floor, with that funeral drum pounding
inside him. Would it hurt to die?" (692)

Granted, it doesn't occur to him to try to escape, which would be
futile. He knows it has to end and only he can end it. But that
doesn't make the walk through the forest, the willing self-sacrifice,
any easier. "He envied his parents' deaths now. This cold-blooded walk
to his own destruction would require a different kind of bravery. 
" He feels, ironically, more alive than ever, more aware of the
miracle of human existence. He understands what he is sacrificing, but
of course, he doesn't yet understand Dumbledore's plan, which looks
like a betrayal. 

He is seeing, for once, from Snape's perspective, thanks to the
Pensieve memory, or rather, from Snape's perspective combined with his
own knowledge of the Horcrux hunt. And because Snape's information has
been as limited as Harry's, Harry's perspective is still distorted.
"He had never questioned his own assumption that Dumbledore wanted him
alive. Now he saw that his life span had always been determined by how
long it took him to destroy the Horcruxes. . . . How neat, how
elegant, not to waste any more lives, but to give the task to the boy
who had already been marked for slaughter. . . ." (695).

Having reconciled himself to the (supposed) inevitability of his death
and to DD's "betrayal," he faces fears of his own inadequacy.
"Dumbledore had overestimated him. He had failed. The snake survived"
(695). His only comfort is that Ron and Hermione also know about the
Nagini Horcrux and will, he thinks, destroy it. "Like rain on a cold
window, these thoughts pattered against the hard surface of the
incontrovertible truth, that he must die. *I must die.* It must end"
(693). Rond and Hermione seem far away. He makes his last arrangement
to have Neville as a back-up to kill Nagini, unable to finish his last
sentence because of a "suffocating feeling" (696). "Ripples of cold
undulate... over his skin" as he passes Ginny. He has his moment of
empathy with the now-dead Snape and Tom Riddle, those other "abandoned
boys," as he looks at Hogwarts, the only home any of them had ever
known, for what he thinks is the last time (697). 

Dementors approach and he has no strength to cast a Patronus. "He
could not control his own trembling. It was not, after all, so easy to
die" (697). 

And then the Snitch. "I open at the close." Harry understands at last
what the words mean, and opens it with the words, "I am about to die."
The Ressurrection Stone doesn't save him from death, but it givees him
the hope and the courage to overcome his despair.

"Dying is not a struggle for Harry"? Just because both he and
Dumbledore have always known what his choice would be does not mean
that the choice was not difficult and painful. He is saved from
despair by hope and love, a point I would develop if I hadn't already
written a book here.
> 
Lizzyben: 
 
> Well, it'd be redundant for me to repeat my objections to the
epilogue, but the main problem is that little to nothing appears to
have changed in the WW. Despite all the talk about house elves &
goblin rights, it doesn't seem like oppressed groups have gained
rights, the house rivalries are just as strong, and the heroes have
settled into comfortable middle-class complaceny. There hasn't been
radical change, or social reform, so it's just a matter of time till>
Dark Lord III rises. <snip>

Carol:
Change doesn't have to be radical. Progress is often gradual, and If
the WW were perfect, what would be the point of an education or a
career? Might as well move to Paradise and be done with it. (Sorry. I
don't mean to sound sarcastic. Harry and Hermione still have work to
do, as do the kids of the next generation. Perfection can never be
achieved, which does not mean that we shouldn't strive to achieve it,
assuming that we can agree on what constitutes perfection. If a third
Dark Lord rises, the next generation will be ready for him. For one
thing, they'll actually have been taught DADA!
> 
lizzyben:
> 
> Ah, well, I disagree that Snape got a hero's death. He got a
villain's death, just as Regulus did. 

Carol:
A villain's death? They died painfully and bravely, not in the heat of
battle, true, but each performing an essential last service in the
fight against Voldemort. (Sure, I'd have loved to see Snape dying like
Boromir, fighting to the last, but Snape kept his cover to his dying
breath, and he shared a moment of understanding with Harry that could
not have happened any other way. Nor could Harry have understood what
he had to do without Snape's memories, which also allow him to
understand and forgive Snape.

Lizzyben:
And honestly, this is probably my real,
> fundamental problem with the novel. Snape was not redeemed - he did
not go to the afterlife, and he did not find forgiveness or peace. He
was all the things you say, but it didn't matter. Snape's ultimate
path was one of penance & pain, not redemption & renewal, and this is
something I find difficult to get over. <snip>

Carol responds: Did not go to the afterlife? Canon, please? Harry
didn't see him at King's Cross because it was Dumbledore he needed to
speak with, Dumbledore who had concealed information from both him and
Snape. He needed DD as much as he needed clothes. Snape had already
provided him with as many revelations as he could (the doe Patronus,
the Sword of Gryffindor, George's ear, the ring curse, DD's death).
But there were still questions only DD could answer. And, of course,
Snape didn't accompany Harry to the confrontation with Voldemort. He
summoned his loved ones, not the man he finally understood but who was
still not likely to provide him with comfort and courage and hope.
That Lupin is there indicates, I think, that Harry has forgiven him
his cowardice. He has redeemed himself by returning to Tonks and he
and Harry can now be reconciled.

But Snape's absence from that group does not mean that he has not gone
on to the afterlife. Mad-Eye Moody isn't there, either. Neither is
Dumbledore, with whom Harry has already spoken. Harry's parents,
Black, and Lupin are not the only people who have gone on to the
afterlife, only the ones that Harry chooses to summon, just as DD
would have summoned Ariana. Their youthful, healed appearance suggests
that the afterlife is much happier and less painful than this Vale of
Tears. "Do not pity the dead, Harry. Pity the living, especially those
who live without love."

Snape has had a painful life, much of it spent atoning for his
greatest sin. Unlike Voldemort, who knows no remorse for his
exponentially greater crimes and is destined to spend eternity as a
suffering, whimpering, helpless, neglected child wrapped in rags, he
has shown remorse and suffered for it all his adult life. He has faced
peril repeatedly, and both Harry and Dumbledore acknowledge his great
courage. "Immense courage," JKR herself has called it. Harry has
publicly vindicated him and forgiven him and named his second son
after him.

As for the afterlife, even the unredeemed Voldemort has one. Snape has
felt the torture of remorse, and remorse, Hermione tells Harry and
Harry tells LV, could save even LV's mangled and tattered soul. It
will certainly save Snape's. The soul, Hermione tells Harry and Ron,
is immortal. It does not die when the body is destroyed. A body is not
a Horcrux and a soul bit is not a soul. Nothing short of a Demntor can
destroy it. 

Snape is a wizard. He will face the choice of becoming a ghost,
clinging to the site of his many sufferings, or "going on" to the
peace and forgiveness and healing that awaits him if the state of
Black and Lupin and DD after death is any indication.

JKR has said that he's redeemed, and that is certainly the picture of
the afterlife for everyone except Voldemort that's presented in the
book. The Veil, too, suggested that the dead live on, as did DD's
words about death as the next great adventure. Snape, I'm quite sure,
will welcome it as a respite from his long suffering and reap the
rewards for his courage and undying love.

Carol, apologizing for the length of this post but really hoping to
see canon support to counter her own in future counterarguments