good and bad slytherins/Disappointment and Responsibility

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 175019

> > Jen: I don't get why the state of the Malfoys matters there.  
> They're 
> > in the Great Hall and not fleeing to the hills, a huge change 
from 
> > being in the forest with Voldemort only hours before.  This is an 
> > example of the weakness in the argument for the cast-off 
> Slytherins.  
> 
> Magpie:
> I'm not sure which argument of mine this is supposed to counter. 
> Pippin said that everyone was sitting together regardless of house, 
> and I was compelled to say that the Malfoys--the ones who have 
> basically been like the other Slytherins--are naturally sitting by 
> themselves and not part of the celebration, they're merely not 
being 
> bothered.
> 
> I have not made any argument for "cast off" Slytherins or ignored 
> that they are in the Great Hall at all (as JKR's said in an 
> interview, they will weasel out of punishment through it). I've 
said 
> that Slytherin house proved itself not too great in these books and 
> unsurprisingly their behavior colors the way they fit in with the 
> rest of the school. They're not cast off, they're tolerated as long 
> as they're not being too bad. What I'm arguing against is the idea 
> that there's some big change and coming together in the epilogue. 
> Seems to me they're just in one of the probably many long periods 
> where Slytherin's not a big problem, but is still the house with 
the 
> reputation for the Dark Arts etc. I'm not giving the story a 
> resolution I don't think it had or wanted to have.
 <SNIP>


Alla:

I cannot speak for Jen, but I guess what I would have argued with the 
examples of Malfoys sitting in the Hall is that there IS a change 
from the beginning of the narrative.

The fact that they ARE there and not in Azkaban, Lucius I mean and 
Draco is not dead, etc.

Correct me if I am wrong, but you are saying that change is not 
substantial for you, no?

What are the criterias that you are using to determine whether it was 
a substantial change or not?

Slytherin's flag was not in R of R? Well, as you said like it or nto 
Slytherin *did** start from a different place than other houses, as 
the only house wholeheartedly supporting DE ideology, it makes total 
sense for me that for them baby steps of change is substantial change.

IMO of course.

I mean in the beginning Harry rejects Draco's hand of friendship.

At the end Narcissa's hand pretty much saves Harry. To me it is a 
very substantial change.

I mean, what would be to you a substantial change in Malfoys? Would 
anything less than Draco saving the day do? I am not assuming, I am 
asking it only because we are talking about Malfoys.

It just while I understand totally what you are talking about 
Slytherin not being in the battle in general, I would also never 
assume that they were there, I just do not get how Malfoys being 
present in the Hall is not a substantial change IMO.

Alla.