[HPforGrownups] Re: Of Sorting and Snape

[Christine Maupin]

No: HPFGUIDX 175170

Judy:
 > Ah, the end of the series doesn't mean the end of the debate between  
 > Snape's supporters and detractors!
 > 
 >> Prep0strus (in post #175139) says, of James & Sirius bullying Snape:
 > > Snape isn't an entirely innocent victim.  He's a boy practicing
 > > dark arts 
 > 
 > Well, Snape is certainly not an innocent by his late teens or so, 
 > since he's joined the Death Eaters. However, you are making some 
 > statements here that are not based in canon. You say that Snape 
 > is "practicing the Dark Arts" and imply that he does so even as a 
 > boy, even during the time when Lily is friends with him. The fact is, 
 > though, that we hardly ever see Snape practicing the Dark Arts in 
 > canon at all, and certainly not as a boy (unless you want to count 
 > killing flies, which we see him doing once.) We see him cast 
 > Sectumsempra once as an adult, but here he is actually trying to save 
 > Lupin from a Death Eater. That is the extent of the Dark Arts that we 
 > actually see Snape USE. 
 > 
 > In fact, we don't really even hear *about* Snape using the Dark Arts. 
 > For example, in the Pensieve trial scene in GoF, Karkaroff accuses 
 > various Death Eaters of horrible things – torturing muggles, 
 > murdering wizards, using the Imperius Curse. But, when he gets to 
 > accusing Snape, all he says is that Snape was a Death Eater. Even 
 > when Crouch Sr. doesn't believe that Snape is a Death Eater, 
 > Karkaroff doesn't back it up with an examples of what Snape has done. 
 > He just says, "I tell you, Snape is a Death Eater!" Moody, watching 
 > the proceedings, whispers to Dumbledore about various things other 
 > Death Eaters have done, but all he does when Snape is mentioned is 
 > look skeptical about Snape's being on Dumbledore's side. Lupin does 
 > mention that Sectumsempra was a specialty of Snape's, but we don't 
 > know if that means Snape used it a lot, or if it means instead that 
 > Lupin is aware that Snape invented the spell. That's about it in 
 > canon for Snape using the Dark Arts. Compare that to, say, how much 
 > Dark Arts we see Voldemort or Bellatrix performing. 
 > 
 > Now, what we do see in canon is that Snape is knowledgeable about the 
 > Dark Arts -- fascinated by them, in fact. But, knowing the Dark Arts 
 > is not the same as using them. In fact, long before we know of 
 > Dumbledore's friendship with Grindelwald, we see two professors 
 > (McGonagall and Binns) stating (or at least implying) that Dumbledore 
 > is quite knowledgeable in the Dark Arts.  
 > 
 > I think this is where some of the divergent views of Snape come in.  
 > Snape is clearly described, by Sirius at least, as being fascinated 
 > by the Dark Arts even as an eleven-year old. Some readers take that 
 > to mean that Snape was always a Dark Wizard, even as a child.
 
 Geoff:
>It's interesting to note what Sirius says to Harry at one point:
 
>'"Ever since I found out Snape was teaching here, I've wondered why 
>Dumbledore hired him. Snape's always been fascinated by the Dark 
>Arts, he was famous for it at school. Simy, oily, greasy-haired kid, 
 >he was," Sirius added and Harry and Ron grinned at each other. "Snape 
 >knew more curses when he arrived at school than half the kids in 
 >seventh year and he was part of a gang of Slytherins who nearly all 
 >turned out to be Death Eaters."'
 >(GOF "Padfoot returns" pp.460/61 UK edition)
 
 >Now this partly echoes what you have said, but the interesting thing is, 
 >how did the other students know about his curse knowledge if he didn't 
 >show it off? And I would have thought that he would need to practise 
 >them in order to convince himself that he knew them....

I enjoyed reading Judy's argument and thought she made a good deal of sense.  I'm responding to neither agree nor disagree with you, Geoff (because I think this is one of those discussions that comes down to honest individual interpretation); but simply to say that, in my opinion, Sirius (a character I do like despite his faults) isn't an objective source of information about Snape.  He hates Snape, so anything Sirius says about him must be taken with a grain of salt (and vice versa).  Saying "Snape knew more curses when he arrived at school than half the kids in seventh year" is not the same as saying "Snape cursed kids every chance he got as soon as he got to Hogwarts."  And the fact that he slips in a personal insult ("Slimy, oily, greasy-haired kid") does nothing to support his opinion in my mind -- in fact it distracts from it and proves his lack of objectivity.

Snape could have been a "know-it-all" in the same vein as Hermione -- answering all the questions in class, lecturing his classmates on what he knows, quoting books he has read.  Now that she has read <i>Secrets of the Darkest Arts</i>, Hermione now knows how to make, as well as destroy, a Horcrux; that doesn't mean she will make one though.

No doubt Snape invented at least one very nasty curse (Sectumsempra) among others (e.g., Levicorpus, which can be used in a nasty way) and must have practiced them to know whether or not they worked; but we don't know under what circumstances he practiced his inventions (on spiders, on those flies we saw him kill, who knows) or whether or not he invented them with the intent to use them defensively, offensively, or both.

And Judy, if I remember correctly (I don't have my OOTP book), Snape did use Sectumsempra at least once at school -- against James in SWM.

Christy, who is surprised that she has become an apologist for Snape but like Harry has forgiven him now that she knows the truth and is trying to be more objective about him as a result

       
---------------------------------
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]