good and bad Slytherins/Disappointment and Responsibility

[lanval1015]

No: HPFGUIDX 175355

> 
Judy:
> I don't actually think many Snape fans believe that Snape is 
> the "Good Guy in almost every situation involving him." (I don't 
> think I've seen a single person say that Snape was justified in 
> calling Lily a "Mudblood," for example.) Instead, they believe 
that 
> he was victimized by James and Sirius. That's a big difference. 
> 

Lanval:
I have seen fans argue that he didn't mean it, that it was forced 
from him under pressure, that the word was so often used in his House
that it became a habit, that he was beyond himself because a girl 
tried to help him, and so on. 

Of course no one has argued (on this list, AFAIK) that a character 
is justified in calling another "Mudblood"; that would likely raise  
some eyebrows regarding the poster's personal views. JMO.

 
> Lanval again:
> > I've seen my share of "how dare you like the Bad Guys, don't
> > you know that you're supposed to hate them, what are you, BAD?"
> > But. I've seen as much condescension from the Snape(insert
> > Draco/Slytherin/Random Designated Bad Guy) fandom, as in, "I LOVE
> > the Bad Guys -- what an interesting, deep, intellectual reader I
> > must be! what, you like the guys JKR 'told' you to like? Oh 
dear...I
> > suppose so do the ten-year-olds..."... I must add that this 
refers 
> > mostly to offlist content, found elsewhere on the internets.
> 

Judy:
> I haven't seen this here. I've read the past few days of posts 
here, 
> and I don't remember any personal attacks on fans for not liking 
> Snape. If you say that these attacks are taking place on other 
sites, 
> I believe you, but please don't bring these fights here. 

Lanval:
Hm, you snipped a bit here; I was talking about two different 
issues. One was a reaction to DH and its morals, one was about the 
*at times* condescending tone from fans who like Snape or any 
character they feel the author does not want them to like, and who 
have *at times* let other fans know they consider this sort of 
interpretation to be superior.

The comparison with ten-year-olds actually stems from this list, but 
it was some time ago. Then there was the Torture/Crucio discussion. 
The rest was mostly triggered by a professional review in The 
Nation, and a review on Yahoo News, which was linked to from this 
list, and a few private LJ posts.

So yes, I think complaining about other HP fans is frowned on here, 
which is why I apologised to the list elves. If you want a personal 
apology, here you go: I'm sorry I brought Offlist Fandom Fights here.

Are we cool? :)



> 
Judy:
> I think the reason so many fans are "singing Snape's praises" as 
you 
> put it, is because he's being *attacked* here. No one is 
vehemently 
> defending Harry because no one is vehemently attacking Harry. (No 
one 
> is attacking Lupin much, either.)
> 

Lanval:
Are you familiar with the term ESE!Lupin?
Sorry, Pippin.... could not resist. :)



Judy:
> As for Sirius, I don't currently see him coming in for the sort of 
> attacks that Snape is currently getting. (He did get attacked a 
lot 
> before Book 5, and he did get some vehement defenders then, just 
as 
> Snape is getting now.) Some people are currently saying that they 
> don't like Sirius and that they feel he was very unfair to Snape, 
but 
> I don't anyone denying that he had his good points -- he cared 
about 
> Harry, for example. But people *are* saying that Snape had no real 
> good points -- he was "creepily obsessed" with Lily instead of 
loving 
> her, he was abusive to children, etc. I even saw one person (Alla, 
I 
> think) saying how comforted she is to think of Snape being 
tormented 
> forever in the afterlife by seeing Lily in James' arms. Of course, 
> this is fiction and readers can intrepret things as they wish, but 
> it's no surprise that Snape's fans are going to respond by 
defending 
> him.  
> 

Lanval:
Well, if that's what Alla wrote, then that's her opinion, and she 
has every right to express it. 

I'd like to get one thing straight: I think it's acceptable 
to "attack" characters, as long as it's reasonably supported by 
canon (yes, Snape's creepy obsession with Lily can be supported). 
And Snape being abusive to children... er, how is that totally 
unsupported?

But once we go off into Conjectureland, where we all like hang out 
from time to time, it gets harder to swallow when unfounded 
accusations are made. "Snape eventually became a DE, so he was most 
likely trying to kill Petunia with that branch" would be a good 
example. "Sirius despised Snape for his weird looks the moment he 
saw him" would be another.

And then there's the double standard issue, of course. 

Judy:
> If you would rather talk about something other than Snape and 
don't 
> want to see fans defending him, the solution is simple: Don't 
attack 
> him.
> 
Lanval:
What gave you the impression I wanted to stop talking about Snape? 

Oh, and I just noticed your answer to my other post, sorry for not 
replying. Too tired now, will look at it tomorrow.