Lily, Hagrid, Snape, Lucius, Friends (was Re: good/bad Slyth/Disappointment

[lanval1015]

No: HPFGUIDX 175394

> Irene:

> > 
> > Ron gets inside the circle after Sirius learns he is Harry's 
> friend. 
> > Before that Sirius could care less how frightened or injured Ron 
> gets.
> > 
> 
> Lanval:
> Where's the proof for that?
> 
> Irene:
> 
> What do you mean? It's all in PoA. Sirius broke to Gryffindor dorm 
at night, and stood at Ron's bed brandishing a knife. He broke Ron's 
leg. He wasn't in any hurry to explain to Ron that he isn't planning 
to kill either him or Harry.
> 

Lanval:
Yes, half-crazed Sirius broke into the dorm and brandished a knife 
at Scabbers. He probably did not care about whether he was 
frightening Ron, but I also don't think his plan included Ron waking 
up. It's the same when he scares Harry in Little Whinging as a dog.

Sirius had to know that Ron was Harry's friend; he'd been watching 
them. I agree though that Ron's impassioned loyalty to Harry in the 
SS made him dearer to Sirius.

About the leg -- it's not as if Sirius had taken a crowbar to Ron's 
leg and smashed it. *Padfoot* was pulling Ron into the tunnel, Ron 
wrapped his leg around a root, Padfoot (who couldn't see what was 
going on) pulled harder, and the leg snapped. 

And of course he wasn't in a hurry to explain himself. :) The plot 
required it. I know, it's a lame excuse, but it's all I have.

 
> Lanval:
> Well, then, show me -- moments of real kindness by Snape. Mind, 
> absence of malice does not count. I only picked moments where 
Sirius 
> does something actually kind, as opposed to just being "not mean', 
> or being civil. Nor do I mean earth-shaking, life-saving deeds. 
> 
> Snape?
> 
> He once helps a distraught Narcissa into a chair.
> 
> Irene:
> 
> Look, I can see we are not going anywhere with that amount of 
irony in the above, but I'll give it another honest try.
> He reassures Narcissa that in the world where everything seems to 
be stacked against her son, he will look after him. And Narcissa 
must by then have realised that lots of people whom she considered 
friends were only in it for Lucius' influence and/or money, so 
Snape's act is really one of personal kindness.

Lanval:
Possible. Though this is after DD tells Snape to keep an eye on 
Draco, who's going to try and kill him. But fine. Still, as you 
pointed out to me earlier, that's only one person, and a friend at 
that.


Irene:
> 
> Healing Dumbledore and Draco doesn't count? Fine.
> 
> Does it count that he notices Neville being strangled in OoTP?


Lanval:
I thought we were talking kind moments? Stuff that's not required, 
or necessary, but that one does anyway, just because. Otherwise I 
would have included more for Sirius -- his breaking out of Azkaban 
to save Harry from Pettigrew, his rushing to save Harry at the MoM, 
his willingness to die for his friends. 

No, I think when it comes to earth-shattering, life-saving deeds in 
HP, Snape actually wins. The point I was trying to make only 
centered on the argument that Sirius was as mean to people as Snape.




> Irene:
> 
> Snape's list is quite short as well: Sirius, Remus, Harry and 
Neville. :-)
> 

Lanval:
My point precisely. It includes two children, both of whom were 
eleven when it began.


> Lanval:
> 
> Snape? Dislikes/despises the entire world, with the exception of 
> perhaps DD and the Malfoys.
> 
> Irene:
> 
> He is very good in hiding it then. In the end of HBP, he could 
have justifiably left a long trail of bodies behind: Flitwick, 
Hermione, Luna. He seems very determined not to harm them. In DH, 
not even Stupefy for McGonagall? Why, that's chivalrous.
> 
Lanval:
See above. Quite a few characters owe their life or limbs to Snape 
(especially during the time of DH), but I think that was for very 
different reasons than kindness (he either felt compelled to do good 
out of conviction, or because he gave DD his word that he would 
protect the school and the students, or both). And he probably 
*still* heartily disliked all of the above, after he spared/saved 
them. :)