Worrying about Unforgivables

[Ken Hutchinson]

No: HPFGUIDX 175548

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, SnapesSlytherin at ... wrote:
>
> The recent discussions on Harry and Co's use of the Unforgivables worries me.? I have 
seen *far* too many people using the rationale "This is war!? It was war!? They had to do 
what they had to in war!"? It makes me nervous because we're saying that it doesn't matter 
was Harry and the Order did or what spells they used or how they accomplished things 
because they were in a war.? It seems to me like some people are saying that the ends 
justify the means entirely in war, that the best way to fight an enemy is to sink to their 
level, and that there really is no problem with torturing people if you're in a war.? The even 
worse justification is the argument I have seen that says that it's okay that the good guys 
use them because they're the good guys -- whatever the good guys do is good because 
that's who they are.? I don't think we can give Harry and the Order a free pass because 
they're the "good guys"? A questionable wizard once said that it's our choices that make us 
who we are -- how far can the good guys go and remain unshakably good?
> 

Ken:

I guess I see things far differently. The good guys are acting with extreme
restraint. The bad guys are throwing AK's around as fast as they can say
the words (and non verbal spells seem to have gone almost entirely out
the window haven't they?) but do we see one of the good guys use even
one? I can't recall one, maybe there were a few. Fenrir just kept coming
back and back and even at the end I see no certainty that he is dead. I *so*
much wanted to see Grawp use his corpse as a snot rag but it never 
happened. In this story the good guys are acting like cops, not warriors.
Lupin berates Harry for his curse choice but I see little evidence that anyone
else on the good side uses anything lethal. Too bad Mr. Genius Werewolf
didn't have the notion to tell *all* seven Harrys to use expelliarmus before
they took off, eh?

You see crucio as torture because that is how Bellatrix uses it. Harry tortures
no one. He used crucio one time out of anger to stop someone instantly 
by causing extreme pain. That was an excellent choice of a non-lethal 
weapon if you ask me. Imperio could also be an effective non-lethal weapon.
Would that we had such tools in the real world to settle confrontations that
turn violent. I'm not saying it is fun to be crucioed but it sure beats what 
happens on real battlefields millions upon millions of times. I don't think
that any of the "unforgivables" are unforgivable on the battlefield. It is part
of war to do these things and that is why war is so horrible. I will agree 
with anyone who says we should do every thing we can to avoid war. I will
disagree with every fiber of my being with anyone who trys to say that 
all wars can be avoided. Sometimes war and violent circumstances are 
thrust on you. The unforgivable curses are all equivalent to things that
are allowed under the Geneva conventions, or would be if they were technically
feasible. Actually something like crucio may be possible and may already 
be in the process of deployment. As long as it is used to avoid killing the
enemy while stopping him from killing you I have to applaud it.

Even though they are imaginary let us show some respect for the 50 dead
good guys laying on the floor of Hogwarts at the end of DH. Probably at 
least 40 of them died because of the constraint they and the other good
guys showed while trying to stop the bad guys who were using lethal force
against them. Time and time again Fenrir went down only to reappear
later causing more mayhem. If the first good guy who brought him down
had AK'd him, how many lives and limbs would he or she have saved? In 
this novel the good guys were exceedingly brave and strongly committed
to the noble notion that the bad guys were to be brought to justice and
not just slaughtered on the field of battle. The good guys gave the last 
full measure of devotion to this ideal. I am going to say to them "well
done". To do any less to the living or the dead is to spit on the finest people
in the Potterverse.

Ken