Of Sorting and Snape (also Fidelius Charm)

[Judy]

No: HPFGUIDX 175782

Pippin said:
> I think many Snape fans (and I am definitely including me) invested
> so much in a Snape who wasn't about vengeance. But he is, he
> really is. "Vengeance is sweet" he breathes. Much as I would have
> hoped he was acting, he wasn't. Snape wanted retaliation for each
> and every injury, real or imagined.

Interestingly, we see nothing about Snape wanting revenge on 
Voldemort for killing Lily. His response to Lily's death seems to be 
overwhelmingly one of grief, not anger. So, Snape actually turned out 
to be less vengeful than I expected, although I agree that (at least 
at first), his positive feeling are limited entirely to Lily.  

The "vengeance is sweet" line was to Sirius in the Shrieking Shack, 
wasn't it? Frankly, I think Snape would have to be a saint (which he 
certainly wasn't ) to not want vengeance here. Harry may believe 
Snape is just angry because of being bullied in school by Sirius, but 
clearly Snape has far better reasons to hate Sirius in this scene. He 
thinks Sirius was responsible for Lily's death, and also was working 
against Snape's goals by spying on the Order to Voldemort, and trying 
to kill Harry at Hogwarts. Add in to this the fact that Sirius is 
believed to betrayed his own best friend and killed 13 muggles, and I 
think most people would want vengeance on Sirius. 

Pippin again:
> Ironically, he got more revenge than he wanted.
> Between relaying the prophecy and his interference in the Shrieking 
> Shack which led to Pettigrew's escape, those whom Snape hated ended 
> up dead, just as Harry said: all the Marauders and Harry himself.

Of course, the only person Snape loved also ended up dead, as did 
Snape himself, and a bunch of people Snape presumably didn't care 
about, or even know. It seems that there was a very high mortality 
rate among those Order members who started fighting during Voldie War 
I. The mortality rate among Death Eaters was high, too. Harry. When 
Harry said that that those Snape hated ended up dead, he was claiming 
that these deaths were somehow Snape's doing. I disagree with Harry's 
claim; the deaths were Voldemort's doing.



I also posted about another topic, the Fidelius Charm, which I'll 
respond to here in the interest of keeping my post count down.

I (Judy) said that:
> If you can be your own Secret Keeper, as Arthur and Bill are, then I
> see no reason why James or Lily couldn't be the Secret Keeper.

And Pippin responded:
> I think it's because the Secret Keeper can reveal the secret, and 
> the secret they need to protect is not Lily or James, it's Harry.
> He is the one Voldemort wants to kill. If James or Lily 
> are secret keepers,
> they can accidentally give themselves away, as Hermione did, and
> then they could be coerced or tricked into revealing 
> Harry. IIRC, the idea was
> for Sirius to go into hiding, luring the pursuit after him and
> leaving the real secret keeper Peter unmolested. Peter would be
> in hiding too, but nobody would go looking for him, since no one
> would suspect such a supposedly weak wizard of being an SK.

So, Pippin, are you saying that it would add another "layer of 
protection" for there to be a different person as the Secret Keeper, 
instead of Lily or James? I don't really see why they would do this, 
because it sounds like it would be better protection for the Secret 
Keeper himself or herself to be protected by the charm, rather than 
out where they can be found & interrogated. 

I also said that Snape being unable to get into Grimmauld Place 
seemed like a flint,
And Pippin replied:

> They knew the DE's couldn't get in because they were keeping watch 
> on the square instead of invading the House. 
> They assumed that whatever
> Moody did to stop Snape from letting the DE's in worked. Presumably
> Snape's tongue would curl up if he tried to tell 
> anyone the exact location of the doorstep.
>  I have to imagine they know there are ways of keeping
> Snape from communicating the location by some other means than
> talking, just as there must be spells besides the stair
> slide to keep boys out of the girls dorms.
[snip]
> As for the doorstep, IMO, the risk of splinching while sidealong 
> apparating into such a narrow space would be enough to discourage 
> Voldemort from ordering Snape to try it, at least while Snape is
> still a valuable lieutenant.

Pippin, you make a valiant effort to fill this plot hole, but I can't 
help thinking that JKR was thinking about this far less logically 
that you are!

You make a good point that the Trio can tell they are safe because 
the Death eaters are hanging around outside, and not getting inside.  
Still, I don't see how Snape would get out of telling the Death 
Eaters how to get in, or why the Trio don't worry that he will get 
around to revealing the secret at some point.

The whole Tongue-Tying jinx didn't make sense to me. The spell seems 
to take effect if  Snape enters the house, but Harry was told the 
secret when he was outside the house, which is presumably what Snape 
would do as well.  Furthermore, Harry was given the secret written on 
a piece of paper, which Snape could also do.  It's not just that we 
aren't told of other protections besides the Tongue-Tying spell, it's 
that the Tongue-Tying spell itself seemed to make no sense.

As for splinching, Ron's splinching happened when Harry tried to 
sidealong apparate two people, and a third person forcible grabbed 
one of the people Harry was bringing with him.  So, I don't think 
Snape would really be in danger if he sidealong apparated a single 
Death Eater to Grimmauld Place. At any rate, I think if Snape can fix 
the damage from Sectumsempra, he can easily fix splinching.

Plus, Mike (mcrudele78) made a good point that Snape could just walk 
up to Grimmauld Place, so presumably no apparating would be necessary.

-- JudySerenity