Heroes in the Harry Potter Series

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 176120

Bart:
> I'd like to start out by saying that, since my cultural background 
is from the United States, these comments are going to be U.S.-
centric. However, from what I have read in the group, it seems that, 
although details will differ, it seems essentially correct for Great 
Britain, as well.
> 
> Moses smashed the 10 commandments, and had to go back to Mt. Sinai 
for a new copy.
> Hercules, in a fit of rage, killed his wife and children.
> King David arranged for an officer to get killed so he could bonk 
the officer's wife.
> Sir Lancelot bonked Queen Guinevere.
> 
> So, it is obvious. These guys were not heroes. After all, they 
weren't perfect.

Magpie:
Hmmm...is anyone complaining that these guys aren't heroes because 
they aren't perfect? Because I think that's a strawman. Being a hero 
doesn't mean you're perfect. It also doesn't mean the audience isn't 
supposed to ever have a problem with your behavior ever. There's a 
whole site on the 'net devoted to the premise that "Superman is a 
Dick" based on the covers of his comics--are they saying he's not a 
hero? No, they're saying they think he's being a dick. Lancelot (who 
I believe in some stories is not the Grail Hero *because* he boinked 
Guinevere and in some versions you actually *do* have to be perfect 
to find the Grail) can just not do it for some people because they 
think he betrayed the king. That doesn't necessarily mean that same 
person expects all heroes to be perfect--they might love the three 
protagonists of LA Confidential and consider them heroes even though 
they all do far worse things throughout the movie. They just think 
White, Exeley and Vincennes are ultimately cool while Lancelot is a 
jerk.

I think people just want to like their heroes as characters and feel 
satisfied with the story. They want to be able to look at their 
flaws and think they just make them more heroic, the attitude you 
mentioned here: "I wouldn't want him to always do the right thing! 
The fact that he did this thing you didn't like makes him better! In 
fact, it's not even a flaw, it makes him human!" This is easy to do 
if you actually like what the hero is doing.

However, if a character isn't doing it for you, you don't feel that 
way. And we tend to judge all characters, including heroes, the same 
way, on how we feel about them. The fact that Frodo Baggins gets the 
Ring to Mount Doom doesn't make people feel ashamed of saying, "He's 
a big mope--Sam should have thrown them both into Mount Doom" if 
that's how they feel reading it. Nor should it, really. 

The problem with Harry Potter for some people is not, imo, that they 
need him to be perfect, but that they just find the character, say, 
a dull-witted little punk. That's why he doesn't seem like a hero to 
them. He doesn't do it for them as a character. But the fact that 
they know he's held up as a hero makes them talk about it in those 
terms. So for instance, looking at something like Unforgivables, one 
person might be that they are shocked and horrified at a good boy 
using an Unforgivable and think a hero should never have that 
*particular* flaw. Or it could just be that they're like, "Yup, 
there's nothing in this universe that isn't a mark of honor when 
Superbrat does it. I guess Harry's power of self-righteousness 
protects him from the Unforgivableness" or whatever. 

In short, I don't think people want their heroes to be "perfect" in 
the sense of doing nothing wrong ever. They just want their heroes 
to be people that don't bug them, and that's going to vary from 
person to person.  A person who likes Frodo thinks he's more heroic 
for his limitations. A person who doesn't like him thinks his 
limitations make him a whiny failure not worth the ink. A person who 
likes Batman is into watching him struggle endlessly with his inner 
demons. Another person thinks he's a dangerous neurotic who ought to 
just be in therapy. Once a character is presented as a hero, every 
audience member is going to judge whether s/he finds him personally 
inspiring. If s/he does, great they'll talk about how cool he is. If 
s/he doesn't, s/he'll talk about what a lame story/character they 
find there. 

The point being, they don't find the particular things this 
character does "makes the more heroic," they think it just gets 
treated as if it makes them more heroic in the story. They don't 
think, for instance, that it makes Hermione "more heroic" that she 
seems to struggle with megalomaniacal tendencies. They think her 
megalomaniacal tendencies are being presented as heroism. That goes 
beyond her failing to be perfect for them.

-m