Was Death an easy choice for Harry to make WAS: Re:Back to Slytherin House

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 176171

> > Alla:
> > That's some strange choice of words for even **almost an easy 
choice 
> > to make** Does not read like easy one to me.  To me it reads 
like 
> > courageous sacrifice, not an easy choice at all. IMO of course.
> >
> 
> 
> lizzyben:
> 
> Well, this was just my personal reaction - cause I've always 
thought
> that DD was basically brainwashing Harry to be a martyr. 

Alla:

Well, yes I get that and I am responding that your personal reaction 
for me falls flat in the face of canon. Of course we are all free to 
have any personal reaction we like, but reaction that it was 
**almost an easy choice to make** IMO has no support in canon.

lizzyben:
<SNIP>
> Now that we know DD's plan, his "training" off Harry seems even 
more
> cold-blooded. For example, it's pretty clear now that DD *did* 
intend
> to send 11-year-old Harry to face Quirrel/LV - giving Harry 
practice
> in facing LV & death. Same deal w/the COS - rewarding Harry for
> showing "personal loyalty" to DD, encouraging a need to be the 
hero &
> save people. DD gives extra points to Harry for saving Fleur's 
sister,
> facing Quirell, etc. All these things encourage 3 things in Harry: 
an
> absolute loyalty to DD, a "saving-people-thing", & a willingness 
to die. 
<SNIP>

Alla:

I would like some canon please for Dumbledore encouraging Harry to 
die in all those things. I was always thinking that DD knew somehow 
about Quirrell and Harry's explanation to Ron and Hermione is 
correct, that DD wanted to give him a chance and all that, but are 
you saying that DD arranged Chamber of Secrets too for example?

I seem to remember Dumbledore rescuing Harry in PS and in CoS Fawkes 
sending rescue. So who again was encouraging Harry to die?

And of course we know that there was no danger for Fleur sister, but 
Harry did not know that and just wanted to save her.

So, sure DD approved Harry's bravery and encouraged it, but 
encouraged to die? Not IMO.

Lizzyben:
> So in a sense, it was an easy choice for Harry to make - it was 
almost
> a habit. He'd rushed into danger & death many times before. So in 
an
> odd way, he was in his comfort zone - heroism. 

Alla:

Huh? What habbit? Are we now equaling desire to save people with the 
desire to go out and die? Canon, please with Harry having a habit to 
sacrifice his life?


Lizzyben:
In another sense, of
> course it was very brave of him, & a tremendous sacrifice. 

Alla:

Glad we agree on that.

Lizzyben:
I just wish
> that JKR, or Harry, had figured a way out of it. And that's mostly 
a
> difference in values - JKR seems to believe that choosing to die is
> the most brave & noble thing that one can do, & I really don't 
agree.
> It seems to cross some invisible line from accepting death to 
almost
> glorifying it.

Alla:

You wish JKR figured a way out of it? But there was a piece of 
Voldemort in Harry's head that could not be killed any other way, 
was it not?

Jen: So chapter 34 didn't happen basically? The whole point was that
Harry thought he knew how to die all along because he continually put
himself in harm's way with his saving people thing (including saving
himself), but when it actually came to voluntarily dying, "all those
times he'd thought that it was about to happen and escaped, he had
never really thought of the thing itself..."

Sure he's surrounded by death his whole life, much of it at the hands
of Voldemort and Bellatrix, and he's choosing to go out in the forest
to them and offer his life without fighting back, refusing to do what
comes naturally to him in other words - fight for life instead of
succumbing to death. He wants his family *back*, he doesn't want to
die to be with them except at the crucial moment when Voldemort is
possessing him. His wish to die and be with Sirius is a defining
moment for why Harry didn't choose the path Voldemort did.

Alla:

What she said basically.