The Fundamental Message of the HP books?

[lealess]

No: HPFGUIDX 176280

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Jen Reese" <stevejjen at ...> wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
> LesAJa:
> > In the end, it seems, Dd was wiser than anyone, and because of
> > that, we may not understand why he does what he does...? Just 
> > follow the leader, be "his man", and whatever he wants you to do 
> > or to ignore is right, and therefore if you do what he wants 
> > you'll be good.  I don't like that, I prefer to follow moral rules 
> > and not persons.  It's easier to lose track of means and motives 
> > if you follow a person, especially if you are emotionally 
> > connected to this person. It hinders people thinking for
> > themselves IMO.
> 
> Jen: Thinking about the real world for just a moment, it's difficult 
> to think of a moral system that exists without being attached to a 
> person or deity.  Religion, social justice, spirituality, political 
> movements - whatever a person chooses to ascribe belief to involves 
> either identifiable leaders or identifiable deities who offer a 
> moral system to follow.  There are no deities in the Wizard World, 
> so JKR substituted identifiable leaders who represent ideologies.  
> 
> Nevertheless, distilling down the WW to two main ideologies and 
> their respective sides, with a large third group of people who don't 
> want to commit to either side or don't realize they should, doesn't 
> necessarily make for a consistent moral system when reading the 
> books!  Like you described in your original post, there are points 
> where the ideologies aren't clearly defined and it leads to actions 
> and events that aren't immediately connected to one side or the 
> other.  A big gray area.
> 
> My reading of Dumbledore's talk with Harry in King's Cross was 
> different from yours.  While Harry still needed to know information 
> only Dumbledore had, Harry was no longer in the role of student to a 
> teacher.  Dumbledore offered the only thing he had left, the truth, 
> which brought Harry's secondary quest in DH to an end.  Snape's 
> memories were the impetus to get him to King's Cross, and 
> Dumbledore's story was the foundation for Harry determining what he 
> would do next: return and help the living.  He could begrudge this 
> man, now dead, for his faults and failings, weaknesses and losses, 
> or Harry could forgive Dumbledore and move on.  There wasn't a 
> reason I could see for Harry refusing his forgiveness when 
> Dumbledore asked for it.
> 
> > I hope my post is not too confusing and apologise if it is, as 
> > English is my second language.
> 
> Jen:  No confusion at all!  Very nice post, thank you.
>

I agree that is a very nice post, too.

I think one of the the fundamental messages of the HP books is the
nature of faith, the submission of the will to the teachings of god,
even if that path takes a person to the valley of the shadow of death.
 With faith, the person need not fear death and, in fact, has been
prepared for it all his life.

Thus, Dumbledore does indeed stand in for a Christian god, and Harry
is his loyal and unquestioning follower, standing in for his son,
surrounded by loved ones Dumbledore has given Harry the means to
resurrect to support and comfort him in his sacrifice.

And aren't the ways of a god mysterious?  Mortals perhaps cannot
understand them.  Simple faith requires people to believe that god has
the greater good in mind, and perhaps even loves his creations (only
Harry, at it turns out), although he may also judge them harshly (Tom,
Severus).  He may stand back and refuse to interfere in the lives of
humans (Tom), or he may see all and orchestrate each move, taking into
account the wild card of free will (Harry's hatred of Severus).  He
may ask his followers to forgive their neighbors (Severus-Sirius), or
he may send them righteously into battle (Harry-Tom).  All of these
interpretations are supported in the canon, as they may be in the
Christian bible.

Dumbledore showed a great deal of grief and humility at King's Cross,
it is true, and his back story humanized him, but there was never any
question of Harry not following him.  Harry, who was not particularly
perceptive or good at controlling his emotions or capable of loving
others in a non-personal way or even able to formulate a simple plan,
had the one thing that mattered in the end -- faith.

I am coming at this conclusion from the perspective of someone who
completely rejects it.  I live in a country, after all, where our
president says he talks to god, and he seems to have less moral qualms
about his actions than Harry Potter.  Nevertheless, I think faith is
the fundamental message of the books.  Give up your will and trust in god.

I also agree with those who point out that the doctrine of
predestination figures into the books' theme in a big way.

lealess