The Fundamental Message.../ Heroes...

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 176311

bboyminn wrote:
<snip>
> 
> Draco is frozen in place, but why is that? Is it because Snape or
Dumbledore failed. To a degree, yes, but primarily Draco is trapped in
a situation of his own making. He is trapped by his own delusional 
romantic notions of what it means to be a Death Eater. When he is
finally confronted by the reality of the situation, he is trapped.
> 
> As to whether Snape and Dumbledore failed, please note that 20 years
later, Draco is still alive and well. Also, Snape didn't swear to
protect Draco for all time and in all circumstances. Anyone who
promises that is both a fool and delusional. 

Carol responds:

Essentially, I agree with you. However, I want to add that Draco
idolized his DE father for years, thinking that he could do no wrong,
that his money and influence could get anything he wanted
accomplished, and that his pure-blood supremacy ethic and support of
the Dark Lord were, if not "right," at least the winning political
philosophy. Neither Dumbledore, who had no personal contact with the
majority of his students (Harry's relationship with him is unique),
nor Snape, who had to maintain his pose of loyal DE waiting for the
Dark Lord's return, could do much to influence him. (Snape could
influence him in his students and encourage his skill in Potions and
serve as role model, a Slytherin whose authority he could respect and
maintain a friendly teacher/student relationship with him, but little
beyond that. Once the Dark Lord had returned, he and DD may have tried
to keep Draco's DE ambitions in check by making him a Prefect;
unfortunately, Dolores Umbridge took over Hogwarts at about that time,
and at the end of the year, Lucius Malfoy's arrest changed everything
for Draco. He wanted revenge, and he was proud to be assigned the
supposedly glorious mission of killing Dumbledore. Rather than viewing
Snape as a mentor, he now saw him as a threat (taking his father's
position as LV's right-hand man and out to steal Draco's "glory").
Snape managed to persuade him to use more caution and deter him from
any more dangerous stunts like the necklace (it was too late to stop
the poisoned mead, which had been ordered as a Christmas gift) and to
save him from Sectumsempra. But he made his choice to become a DE over
the summer, after his father's arrest and before Snape returned as
DADA teacher (a position that DE!Draco held in contempt--as if *we*
need to be protected from Dark magic, he sneers). The contrast between
what Draco thought he was getting into (joining the winning side) and
what becoming a DE really meant can be seen by contrasting his
attitude from the end of GoF through the beginning of HBP (taunts,
boasts, and threats) with the tears he sheds and the fears he
expresses in "Sectumsempra" (HBP) as he learns that the DEs and their
families are expendable tools, subject to death and torture if the
fail Lord Voldemort, his hesitation on the tower when he discovers
that killing is not as easy as he thought, and his terror and feeble
attempts to help Harry throughout DH. 

As far as I can see, Snape did the best he could in both HBP and DH,
but he had neither the opportunity nor the means to prevent Draco from
becoming a DE at age sixteen. Draco was ripe for LV's dangled bait,
with no idea that he was on a suicide mission. The best that Snape
could do was report the situation to Dumbledore, who further worsened
the situation by putting on the ring, making Snape promise to kill him
(in part to save Draco's soul from murder through his own mercy
killing), and leaving the way open for the UV. To blame Snape for
Draco's decision and LV's trap as Betsy is doing is, IMO, completely
unfair to Snape, who puts his own life on the line to save Draco's and
thwart the Dark Lord's plan. Nor can he do much except perhaps ask
Slughorn to keep an eye on Draco in DH. (At least Draco doesn't join
Crabbe and Goyle in Crucioing their fellow students!) Snape can do
nothing when Draco is home for the summer with LV as a guest or when
Bellatrix summons him over the Easter holiday and Snape is not even
present.

bboyminn: 
> Until Draco realizes he need to be fixed, he is trapped, and no
amount of intervention will help. Snape's promise to protect Draco is
tied to a context, and within that context, Draco lived. So, Snape did
his job. 

Carol responds:
Not only lived but didn't commit murder, which was one of the reasons
Snape agreed to kill DD in the first place. But as for joining the DEs
in the first place, that had nothing to do with Snape and was beyond
his control.
> 
bboyminn:
> You [BetsyHp] keep mentioning that there was no Slytherin banner in
the Room of Requirements. OK, by a show of hands, how many people
expected there to be a Slytherin banner in the Room of Requirements?
Really? How many people /hoped/ there would be a banner there? Really?
Amazing how few hands were raised.
> 
> Now let me ask, whose fault is that? I say it is Slytherin's fault
for not having the courage to step away from the crowd and take a
stand. Slytherins more than any other group are under a great deal of
> pressure to tow the line; the party line. That doesn't
> make it easy to step 'out of line'. Further, 
> Slytherin has so alienated themselves from the other
> Houses, that they couldn't reasonably expect anyone
> out side of Slytherin to trust them. So, I don't 
> think even Slytherins expected or hoped for a banner
> in the Room of Requirements. If they didn't expect it,
> why should you. <snip>

Carol:
The whole reason that the Slytherin banner does not appear in the RoR
is that no Slytherins seek sanctuary there. The room provides a
hammock and a banner for each student who shows up there seeking to
escape from the Carrows. Since Draco is not a victim of the Carrows,
he doesn't show up looking for *that* version of the RoR (the place
where things are hidden is a different manifestation of the room).
Also, since the room is closed to Carrow supporters, it might not let
anyone with a Dark Mark in.

Obviously, Crabbe and Goyle, who *are* Carrow supporters, and Pansy
Parkinson, who is willing to sell Harry to Voldemort (in part because
of a personal grudge against him but mostly to save her own skin)
would not be let in. Most likely, any former member of Umbridge's
Inquisitorial Squad would be banned.

But most Slytherins would be like Slughorn, trying not to stir up
trouble and/or protected by their pure-blood status. Unlike the DA
members, most probaly don't evn know that the RoR exists. And no
Slytherin was invited to join the DA in the first place.

It's simply unrealistic to expect any Slytherin to hide out from the
Carrows in the RoR when only the former DA members do so. And the RoR
provides banners only to the students who hide there--a lot of
Gryffindors, a handful of Ravenclaws, and an even smaller number of
Hufflepuffs.

The banners are not there waiting for the students. At first there was
only Neville's hammock and a single Gryffindor banner. Heck, he didn't
even request a bathroom. It took the presence of girls to require that
small item!

Carol, who thinks that the absence of the Slytherin banner from the
RoR proves nothing at all since no Slytherin had either the means or
the motive for hiding there