The Fundamental Message.../ Heroes...

[Zara]

No: HPFGUIDX 176418

> > zgirnius:
> > Now, suppose Nagini had been dead at the time of their 
encounter. Here 
> > is how I believe it was supposed to play out:
> > 
> > 1) Voldemort sends AK at Harry,
> > 2) Harry is hit by AK,
> > 3) Since Voldemort is alive, this kills the soul bit but not 
Harry 
> > (blood protection, from the blood Voldemort took from Harry),
> > 4) AK rebounds due to blood protection,
> > 5) AK hits Voldemort,
> > 6) since Nagini is dead, and the soul bit in Harry is destroyed 
in 3), 
> > Voldemort dies, having no Horcruxes to tie him to life anymore.
> > 7) Yay!
> >
> 
> Renee:
> Ah, I see what you mean now. Ingenious - but didn't the blood
> protection expire when Harry turned 17? 

zgirnius:
Not according to Dumbledore. The protection at Harry's house that 
Dumbledore set up expired at 17, but not the protection Harry 
derives from Voldemort having Harry's (magically altered by Lily's 
sacrifice) blood.

> DH, "King's Cross":
> "He took your blood believing it would strengthen him. He took 
into his body a tiny part of the enchantment your mother laid upon 
you when she died for you. His body keeps her sacrifice alive, and 
while that enchantment survives, so do you and so does Voldemort's 
one last hope for himself."

> Renee:
> Also, I don't think that the
> AK could still have rebounded after killing the soul bit in Harry.
> After all, it found a mark and did its job. 

zgirnius:
In canon, the soul bit was destroyed when the AK hit Harry. In 
canon, Voldemort fell down senseless thereafter for some reason we 
did not see, since when Harry comes to, the Death Eaters are all 
worried about Voldemort. I think this was the AK rebounding. In 
other words, it did; so it would even if Nagini were not alive.

> Renee:
> Moreover, this second scenario would make Harry invulnerable to
> Voldemort under any circumstances - which would make Dumbledore a
> moron for thinking Harry had to die,

zgirnius:
The scenario I outline above was *Dumbledore's plan*, as I see it. 
So no, he was not a moron who thought Harry had to die. He was a 
cunning puppetmaster who thought Harry would survive if Voldemort 
tried to kill him, and desired to bring that about at the right time 
to also bring about Voldemort's destruction.

> Renee:
> Snape a moron for believing him,

zgirnius:
I don't see why this makes Snape a moron for believing Dumbledore. 
Snape, I presume, lacks Dumbledore's deep knowledge of ancient magic 
(and possibly the particulars of Voldemort's rebirthing, such as the 
fact that Harry's blood was used), just as Dumbledore probably can't 
match Snape in Occlumency, Potions, and healing Dark Curses. Snape 
believed the word of the expert on the subject, in other words. A 
reasonable choice, if he thought he had reason to trust said expert.

> ReneeL
> Harry's willingness to sacrifice himself a mere misunderstanding 

zgirnius:
Harry thought it was necessary - that made his actions genuine and 
admirable. It was not, however, a misunderstanding, but a deception 
practised on him by Dumbledore with the unwitting assistance of 
Snape.

> Renee:
> and
> the entire Elder Wand business pointless, and needlessly 
complicated
> (as opposed to just complicated). 

zgirnius:
I suppose under this scenario it provides a distraction for 
Voldemort so he fails to realize he is trying the same thing, yet 
again.

Perhaps I have the wrong reason for why the AK would rebound - if 
that is somehow tied to the soul bit's destruction, the Elder Wand 
would be the mechanism for Harry to defeat Voldemort.