Ownership (was... The Fundamental Message.../ Heroes...)

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 176507

---  "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote: 
> 
> Carol responds:
> 
> Goblins' rights aside, Griphook *is* wrong--as in 
> mistaken--about the ownership of the Sword of 
> Gryffindor. It was made by a long-dead goblin for 
> Godric Gryffindor, who paid a large amount of gold 
> for it. (But)... it's enchanted to come out of the 
> Sorting Hat for any Gryffindor who needs it. 
> 
> At any rate, as I see it, goblin-made swords, armor, 
> tiaras, etc., do belong to the wizards who paid for 
> them, just as my car belongs to me and not to the 
> Ford workers who manufactured it. ....

bboyminn:

Here is an aspect of the Goblin/Wizard's transactions
that I think we need to consider. Now, we know Goblins
think the the manufacturer/crafter of an object retains
ownership. Yet, without question, Goblins also know 
that wizards don't see it that way. So why do they
continue to sell objects to wizards when they know
the is contention over the nature of the transaction?

If Goblins truly felt this way, they could introduce
a Sales Contract that dictated the terms of ownership,
and wizards could either take it or leave it, but 
notice they don't. They don't enter into a sales 
agreement in which both parties agree. The continue
to sell objects under contentious circumstances. They
continue to sell under one frame of mind knowing 
full well that the purchasing party does not have the
same frame of mind, AND they have continued along
this path for many many centuries. So... what's up
with that?

I think the thing that Goblins most object to is the
idea that wizards dictate the terms of everything. That
somehow wizards have deemed themselves Lords and 
Masters of the Universe. That when ever any problem
arises, wizard somehow feel the need to step in and
resolve the problem. 

I think this applies to wandlore as well. The Goblins
don't object to the fact that wizards have wandlore,
they object to the fact that wizards feel they have
a right to control the knowledge. 

It's not even about a willingness to exchange, say
Goblin metal crafting knowledge for wandlore 
knowledge. It is about the absolute right to 
knowledge and information, and the right to choose for
yourself what you do or don't get to use. 

Goblins through out history seem to have done everything
in their power to dispute the nature of Wizards to solve
and control all things. When wizards were trying to 
categorize everyone one into Beast, Being, or spirit,
Goblins did everything they could to subvert the process.
Not because the didn't like the result, but because they
didn't think it was up to wizards to make that decision.

I think in a subtle way, this is JKR's 'dig' into
Western civilization. Some how the arrogance of Western
Europe and now the United States is, historically, beyond
the pale. Christopher Columbus discovered 'America' and
despite the fact that 'America' has it own people, its 
own civilization and its own religion, ol'Chris assumed
because he found it, it belong to him. The same is
true of India and China. Despite both having far more
complex and much older civilizations that Europe, some
how Europe thought it owned those places simply because
they set foot them. 

I think that is how Goblins see wizards, as the height
of arrogance to presume that it is up to them to decide
anything for anyone. 

But back to the main point, by selling objects knowing
the conditions wizards attached to the transactions,
like it or not, Goblins gave de facto approval to those
conditions, and as such have no right to claim Goblin
made objects from the heirs of the original purchaser
UNLESS they have written documentation supporting their
alternate position. 

Just one man's opinion.

Steve/bboyminn