How do the books affect children? (was: Why down on all the characters?)

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 179534

> > Magpie:
> > Really? That's the most important value in the book? That just 
> seems 
> > kind of...so what? 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Are you talking about making friends for their personality as being 
> so what value for you, just to be clear? Or are you talking about 
> courage is important, standing against evil is important being so 
> what values for you as well? Because if all of what I listed are 
> matters not for you, there is really nothing to discuss I guess.
> 
> If we are only talking about making friends with connections, then 
> read on.

Magpie:
I'm talking about the value being to not make friends with someone 
because of their connections rather than their personality. I can't 
think of a single person in my sixth grade class that I would 
describe as having "connections." If I were a first year in Harry's 
year the main person to get that title would be Harry "the boy who 
lived" himself, since I'd apparently have grown up hearing his name 
and I'd know him even if I were Muggleborn.
> 
> Magpie:
> I mean, how many children are struggle with that? 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> I do not know how many. I think Harry did.

Magpie:
When did Harry struggle with wanting to be friends with anyone 
because they had connections? What connections has he really wanted 
in canon? I can think of far more times where he rejects other 
peoples' advances.

> Magpie:
>  Harry's got far more social clout that any other person he meets 
> > in his life so he's got nowhere to climb to. (And before somebody 
> > points out that sometimes Harry is a pariah--yeah, that's part of 
> > being an Important Person. Everybody has an opinion about Harry. 
> > Nobody's friendship will change his social standing.)
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Nope, not in my opinion. The fact that Harry is a pariah sometimes 
> is one of many things that does not make me to think of him as 
> important person, never will, never would.

Magpie:
Then I guess I don't know what to reply to that. The kid is actually 
called "The Chosen One." In the newspaper. He's a celebrity. The 
biggest celebrity in his world. If Harry isn't an important person I 
don't know who possibly could be. He's almost literally the only 
person who matters most of the time in his entire world.

Alla: 
> And everybody has an opinion about Harry is I think again an 
opinion.

Magpie:
With consistent canonical evidence. 


> Magpie:
> > Not being friends with someone because of their connections isn't 
> an 
> > issue in the books at all. Harry is never tempted by it. The 
> closest 
> > the books get to raising the issue is maybe Draco's lines on the 
> > train, but there's no temptation there. Harry already hates Draco 
> > personally and Draco has nothing to offer him that we can see. If 
> any 
> > sixth grader came on to another with a line like that they'd be 
> > laughed at and probably be a complete social misfit. Draco's an 
> > annoyance to Harry, somebody jealous of him. <SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> That's your intepretation. Mine is that this moment ( and this is 
of 
> course the moment I was thinking of) is one of the defining moments 
> in the book, when Harry instead of choosing pureblood ideology, 
> instead of choosing everything Malfoys stand for, chooses Ron and 
> what Weasleys stand for as I perceive it - love, loyalty, 
> friendship, putting blood purity as something very unimportant on 
> their list of values. I view it as very symbolic. IMO of course.

Magpie:
Yeah, it's defining and symbolic. That doesn't make it any real 
temptation for Harry whatsoever. There's not a single moment where 
Harry is ever even close to thinking of making a friend in Draco 
Malfoy. Even when Draco walks into the traincar the narrator is 
criticizing his presentation. The moment Harry refuses to shake his 
hand tells us, if it weren't already obvious, that Harry doesn't like 
assholes even if they are trying to be his friend. Harry himself 
doesn't have to think about it or regret anything he's given up (he's 
not given up anything as far as we ever see). As a signpost for Harry 
being the Good Kid it's obvious. The author didn't let Harry sink so 
low or Draco rise so high as to make it any sort of real temptation.

And of course, it's Draco who's trying to make the connection here to 
Harry. Because Harry is Important. And still is when he tells Draco 
off.

-m