In Defense of Scrimgeour & Offense against DD

[lizzyben04]

No: HPFGUIDX 179590

> a_svirn:
> And considering the effects such "investigation methods" have on 
> the "witnesses", I would assume that they are probably not legal. 
At 
> least, they shouldn't be. Therefore I don't see how Dumbledore 
could 
> possibly present his evidence to the Ministry without compromising 
> himself.

lizzyben:

Well, Barty Crouch Jr. describes this "investigation method" as 
torture. So I'd assume it's probably not legal. Also, DD wouldn't 
want to present expulcatory evidence for Morfin because that memory 
might lead to troublesome questions about the Ring or the Horcruxes, 
or DD's own role in Morfin's death. But still, I can almost see DD 
doing this, and then raging at the evil Ministry for imprisoning 
Morfin, & seeing no hypocrisy there at all. 


Mus adds:

On the other hand, we don't know that DD disposed of them directly.
We only know that LV did away with Jorkins, and this sounds like an
immediate death. In the case of Morfin and Hokey, the deaths occurred
some time after DD broke the Charm.

If death results inevitably from the breaking of the Charm, then LV's
offing of Jorkins at least gave her a quick death; DD seems to have
left Hokey and Morfin to die slowly. 
 
In other words, DD didn't need to kill them directly. Time would do 
it, and his hands would, naturally, remain clean.

lizzyben:

Oh, yes, exactly. I didn't mean that DD "disposed" of them directly -
he'd never be so crass (or obvious). No, DD extracted all the 
information he could from them, destroying their minds & bodies, and 
then left them to die later on - when DD is far, far away. 

Clean hands is the DD mantra, as far as I can tell. He always seems 
to retain enough distance that these deaths can't be directly traced 
to him. But he does say that Hokey & Morfin died shortly after his 
visits - why didn't I ever make the connection before? Argh. 

Mus:
"The only one he ever feared?" You've got a point there, Tom.

lizzyben:

Oh, yeah, DD is chilling. I love how he says that by the time he 
managed to extract her memory, Hokey's life was almost over. LOL, 
yeah, and by the time Voldemort managed to extract Bertha Jorkins' 
memory, her life was almost over too. DD's actually technically 
telling the truth, but in such a misleading way that it becomes a 
lie. 

Mus:

" 'Yes, that is my conclusion, too,' said Dumbledore. 'And, just as
with Morfin, the Ministry was predisposed to suspect Hokey - '

' - because she was a house-elf,' said Harry. He had rarely felt more
in sympathy with the society Hermione had set up, SPEW." [HBP UKhb: 
410-1]

This is just bizarre. DD is telling us that wizardkind regards
house-elves *as a class* as suspect and capable of harming their
masters. It's a good thing the little blighters aren't free, isn't 
it?

lizzyben:

Well, Harry has a tendency to interrupt right when people are about 
to reveal important information. I don't think that DD was about to 
say that the Ministry suspected her because she was a house elf, 
because Morfin isn't a house-elf, yet he's saying that they were 
both suspected for the same reason. Who knows, maybe they're both in 
Slytherin? 


lizzyben