How do the books affect children? (was: Why down on all the characters?)

[stephab67]

No: HPFGUIDX 179620

Steph:
I agree with Alla here.  Just because Harry is famous doesn't mean 
he's popular.  In fact, he spends much of the time in both GOF and 
OotP being distinctly unpopular. 
> 
a_svirn:
I think you sort of confuse being unpopular with being notorious. 

Steph:
I make a distinction between people like Fred and George, who are the
really cool, popular kids, with Harry, who, while being important and
appreciated at times for his Quidditch skills and ability to fight off
Voldemort, doesn't have people knocking down his door to be friends
with him, at least not until HBP.

a_svirn
Harry's fame and importance is a fact of canon, but it is a mixed 
blessing. In GoF and OotP it turns temporary against him. Just as 
Dumbledore's fame turns to notoriety in OotP. But Harry's still 
widely known, granted, unfavourably known for some time, but still 
conspicuous and still important. In GoF he's a school champion, and 
as such has more social clout than any fourth-year could dream of. 

Steph:
Indeed.  I'm not disputing at all that he's important.  I just
disagree that people want to be buddy-buddy with him, except for the
usual suspects.

a_svirn:
In OotP for all his alleged unpopularity a few dozens of people turn
up in a seedy pub to listen what he has to say. And they recognize him
a leader from the get-go. Just imagine how many people would turn up
if Hermione invited them to listen to *her* rather than to Harry. This 
is not what being unpopular means.

Steph:
This is not popularity.  This is a group of smart kids who know that
there's a huge threat out there and that Harry is the guy who's got
the experience to get rid of that threat.  No one would go for
Hermione, because, even though she's book smart, she hasn't fought
Voldie like Harry did.  If you want to learn how to do something you
seek out the person who can teach you, whether you like them or not. 
Harry's that guy.

a_svirn:
It was Hermione who was unpopular for the part of PS. And it was 
because her friendship with famous and popular Harry her standing in 
Gryffindor improved. 

Steph:
It did, but not that much.  Hermione really doesn't have any friends
aside from Harry, Ron, and Neville.  She isn't really all that
friendly with Ginny until OotP, and even we don't ever hear about her
hanging out independently with Ginny.  She's only kind of friends with
Luna.  I'd still call her rather uncool.

a_svirn:
(Though unlike Ron she did not set out to befriend the famous Harry
Potter.) - snip, snip, snip - If I want to rub shoulders with famous
and celebrated it has nothing whatsoever with my desire to get
important connections? Really? Why would I want to do so, then? 

Steph:
Wow, you really dislike Ron, don't you?  You obviously think he's a
social climber who only wanted to be friends with Harry because of who
he is.  I'm probably wasting my time here, but I still don't think
that Ron was the social climber some people make him out to be. You
are taking a chance meeting on the Hogwarts Express platform as a
deliberate move on Ron's part to "rub shoulders with the famous and
celebrated." I've just pulled out my SS.  The twins were the first
ones to realize who Harry was, not Ron, who actually didn't know until
the twins pointed it out to him AFTER Ron was already sitting in the
carriage with Harry.  Ron actually thinks at first that Fred and
George were teasing him until Harry confirms who he is and shows Ron
the scar.  Reading through the chapter, Ron's reaction seems to be
that it's cool that the story is true.  Harry, for his part, is
thrilled to have met someone who is from a full wizarding family, and
assumes out loud that Ron knows a lot of magic already. He's just as
interested in Ron as Ron is in him.   

a_svirn:
Huh. That's what, about a dozen people who would die for you without 
even asking a single question? Poor Harry, that must be tough being 
so unpopular. 
 
Steph:
That wasn't until the end of HBP and DH.  For most of the series,
Harry was not one of the popular kids.  Fred and George, yes; Cedric
Diggory (before his untimely death), yes.  Even Ginny was cool.  In
any case, I wouldn't say that all those people were willing to die
*for Harry*, at least not directly.  Die to get rid of Voldie, yes. 
They were fighting to keep the DEs distracted so Harry could kill
Voldie.  If that meant they would die, they were willing to do that if
that's what it took to take down Voldie.  The DA were all upset
because Harry didn't want them to help him.  They basically said, then
what did they learn all that stuff for, if not to fight to get rid of
Voldie?

Steph:
Ron certainly thought it was cool that Harry was who he 
was, but after that it didn't really seem to matter to Ron that 
Harry was famous.  
> 
a_svirn:
Didn't matter? When he was obviously consumed with jealousy all the 
time? To the point of succumbing to the Horcrux's influence?

Steph:
Ron's jealousy toward Harry was specifically about Hermione - look at
 his reactions regarding Krum.  It was more about Ron being insecure,
feeling that he wasn't good enough for Hermione, rather than about
Harry or Krum.  He even was jealous of McLaggen, which was ridiculous.
 He didn't know why she would want him when there were all these other
obviously more worthy guys around.  He never showed any jealousy of
Harry's fame except for the brief moment in time during GoF, and that
was more because he thought Harry lied to him about putting his name
in the cup, and was tired about being shunted to the side. It always
happened at home, and now he was getting it from his best friend.  He
got over it three chapters later, and apologized to Harry, or was
about to: "Harry knew Ron was about to apologize and suddenly he found
he didn't need to hear it (p.358 USHC)." Ron would have been that way
even if Harry never existed.