School politics at Hogwarts (Re: How do the books affect children? )

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 179630

> Steph:
> We're not that far off, I just don't think that Harry became cool
> until he was proven right about Voldie at the end of OotP.  Then he
> did become cool.
> 
> My perceptions of this whole thing are colored by the fact that 
I'm a
> high school teacher and see every day the gradations of students, 
from
> the social outcasts to the kids at the top of the social heap (call
> them cool or popular, to me it's the same thing).  There are kids 
who
> are important and popular, such as the sports kids, drama kids,
> student council, etc., the kids who are important but not popular
> (sometimes the same group, but there's something about them which
> makes them not cool - maybe they're nerdy), the kids who are just 
cool
> (hence popular) even though they're not involved in any particular
> activity, the kids who are just the 'normal' ones - not popular or 
but
> not particularly unpopular, some of whom are important, some not -
> this is the group I'd put Harry in, by the way), the kids who are 
the
> nerdy, kind of unpopular kids, the stoners, the demotes, and the 
total
> social outcasts.  Then there are the gangbangers, which can fit 
into
> any of the above categories.  By the way, I'd put Neville in the
> nerdy, unpopular group rather than the total social outcast group,
> whereas Luna definitely fits in the social outcast group. If I had 
to
> characterize the others aside from Harry, here's where I'd put 
them:
> Ron: normal, but not important
> Hermione: uncool but borderline important because of her academics
> Fred and George: important and cool 
> Ginny: cool, then important when she gets on the Quidditch team
> Dean and Seamus: normal, like Ron; Dean is probably a bit cooler 
than
> Seamus

Magpie:
This is sort of a tangent, but I think it's an interesting thing to 
analyze in the series, because I think the using American high 
school groups to understand Hogwarts is both helpful and not at the 
same time. 

Like, I would also put Neville in the nerdy unpopular group rather 
than the social outcast group if he were at my school...but at 
Hogwarts, there is no nerdy unpopular group. There are few groups at 
all--the only real groups I can think of are the Marauders, who are 
basically the Gryffindor boys, and groups of faceless girls who 
occasionally appear to giggle. Neville doesn't hang out with anyone 
(though if a group like that existed they might accept Luna). The 
school doesn't really break down into all those recognizable cliques 
(I don't know if that's really as much of a British thing anyway). 
The Twins, for however popular they may seem like they should be 
(leaving aside that being practical jokers probably wouldn't 
translate to "cool" in the real world), don't have people clamoring 
to be their friends either. They hang out with each other and are 
friends with Lee Jordan. 

I would agree that Harry is basically normal like Dean, Seamus and 
Ron. He's not in "the cool group"--though he's above any of those 
other boys because he's got ties to older students from the time 
he's a first year--his Quidditch team membership alone puts him on 
another level. But there is no popular group that everyone clamors 
to be friends with. No exclusive parties. It doesn't seem like 
Cedric is in a popular group either. We see people following him 
around in GoF, but if that's proof that he is one then so is Harry 
who also has people following him around at that age. Cedric is 
cooler than Harry because he's older, but probably wouldn't have 
been so intimidating if they were in the same year. By the time 
Harry's in almost the top class, he's at the top, but there's still 
no popular crowd.

The only place the books really get into the idea of the popular 
stereotype is, bizarrely, with the Slytherins. *They* follow 
the "cool group" stereotype even if in some ways they totally 
contradict it. Maybe in the 1950s one would expect the high school 
hero to be part of the "popular crowd" but I think the tide has 
firmly turned away from that now, because "popular crowd," while 
still holding many attractions, has also become synonymous with mean 
and shallow and exclusive. 

That's the Slytherins. They insult other people for their clothes 
and their looks, think they're better than other people, talk about 
being socially connected and cool. When Draco and Pansy need to act 
like the rich villain couple from an American teen movie they can do 
it. Only they don't have the actual advantages the popular crowd 
usually has. Except for Blaise Zabini none of them are described as 
particularly attractive--and we never hear about anybody actually 
interested in Blaise either besides himself. Harry and Ginny seem 
more actually more attractive when at the dating age than any of the 
Slytherins, and more sought after. Harry is the sports star, 
Gryffindor is the star team and the star house. They're more 
glamorous. Nobody wants to be friends with the Slytherins, but they 
seem to live under the delusion they're exclusive when they're 
actually repulsive.

I know I always get into the whole Shadow idea, but it just seems to 
come up so much. If you looked at the "high school superstar" 
stereotype (which requires the kids to be at least old enough to 
carry it off correctly) I think it would split between Harry and 
Draco, with Harry getting the good bits and Draco getting the bad. 
Harry is famous, good-looking, athletically gifted, a leader, 
socially connected, chased after by crowds, inspires jealousy, 
glamorous, rich and dates the most popular girl in school. Draco is 
snobbish, arrogant, mean, exclusive and shallow. The only person who 
talks about Harry as if he's "that guy" is Draco Malfoy.

-m