CHAPDISC: DH Ch 9, A Place to Hide

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 179789

> Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows
> CHAPDISC: Chapter 9, A Place to Hide
> <snip admirably concise discussion>
> Discussion Questions:
> 
> 1. When you first read this chapter, what did you think it was that
tipped the Death Eaters off to the Trio's whereabouts? Did you happen
to think that the Name was jinxed? Or, like me, you thought that the
trace was simply still active?

Carol:
I suppose I thought that the Ministry had found some way to keep the
Trace on Harry. I certainly didn't think about the name being jinxed
(though if that had been done in VW1, it would certainly explain the
widespread fear of speaking the name). I think I was more interested
in finding out what was going on than in supplying answers of my own
at that point.

> 
> 2. Were you ever a Boy (or Girl) Scout? If so, what do you think of
Hermione's "Always prepared"? Do you think she would have made a good
Girl Scout?

Carol:
I *was* a Girl Scout. I'm proud of that experience. Sorry. I really
was never more than a Brownie Scout, but I couldn't resist parodying a
certain (now dead) U.S. President. Anyone who can't hear his voice in
their head as they read those words is either not American or younger
than I am. Anyway, I thought "Be Prepared" was the Boy Scouts' motto.
FWIW, I think Hermione would have made a very annoying Girl Scout,
always wanting to be in charge of everything.
> 
> 3. Why do you think The Trio didn't want to kill the Death Eaters?
They are 'good', we all get that, but they are in a war, and at those
times killing is allowed. Do you agree?

Carol:
Killing unconscious people, Death Eaters or not, is murder. I would
have been most unhappy with both Rowling and the characters if they
had done any such thing. You don't lower yourself to the bad guys'
level if you're a good guy (even if you do use an Unforgiveable Curse
on occasion, but that's another discussion). Fortunately, the kids
aren't generals in a position to order the bombing of civilians or
even soldiers ordered to take the offensive against the enemy. For
them as for most people, killing is only justified to save their own
lives or someone else's, in battle or self-defense. All they need to
do in this situation is take the bad guys out of action and get away.
(On a side note, LV probably made the DEs wish they'd been killed. I'm
surprised that they both showed up at the Battle of Hogwarts,
loyalties still apparently intact.)
> 
> 4. How does Hermione know how to produce a speaking Patronus? This
isn't taught in any book at all, only the Order knows how to. Has
Tonks perhaps been teaching her? Or another Member? Who do you think
would be willing to teach her Order-Restricted incantations?

Carol:
Hermione says that she's been practicing, not that anyone has taught
her, so she must have figured it out on her own. Unfortunately, Mr.
Weasley tells them not to respond to his message, so we never get to
see her messenger Patronus in action. It feels to me as if JKR dropped
the ball on that one.
> 
> 5. What do you think were Harry's feelings as he entered 12
Grimmauld Place, that dreaded place where his godfather once lived,
and is greeted by the ghost of his mentor?

Carol:
I'm not sure that the spooky shade of DD conjured by Moody's spell
looked like a ghost. It certainly didn't act like one, whooshing over
them like cold air and rolling up their tongues and then addressing
them as Severus Snape. And unlike a ghost, it has sunken, fleshless
eye sockets, more like a zombie created after the corpse has begun to
rot than a ghost. Harry seems horrified and yet in possession of his
wits, not as terrified as Hermione and Ron (who at least comforts
Hermione after it explodes in a cloud of dust). I'd have wet my pants,
frankly. But once they discover that it responds to the word "kill,"
it doesn't seem so frightening.
> 
> 6. The Trio see signs that someone has been at 12 GP. What did you
think this meant? Did you think it had been Snape, and if so, how did
you think he got past Moody's jinxes?

Carol:
I thought it might be Snape and that he got past both the jinx and the
dust corpse. Since the tongue-rolling jinx seems to be temporary (I
thought it was intended to prevent Snape from telling anyone about
Order HQ now that the Secret Keeper spell has been diluted), I figured
he simply said something along the lines of, "You know I killed you on
your orders, Dumbledore," or "I didn't kill you willingly, Dumbledore;
I did it on your orders." That way, the spell would still be broken by
"kill" (or "killed"). I don't think that he'd be afraid of the dust
corpse for more than a moment. Certainly, he wouldn't think it was a
vengeful ghost that had returned to harm him (and if it were an
Inferius, he'd know how to deal with it). At any rate, Snape is a
master of DADA and very clever himself, not to mention that he isn't
haunted by a murder he didn't commit, so the psychological element of
Moody's spell would fail. Assuming, of course, that Snape was DDM,
which I didn't know for sure at that point. I also thought that Snape
(again assuming DDM) could tell Voldemort and the DEs about the
tongue-curling jinx, which would prevent him from naming the Order
HQQ's location, if anyone questioned him about the Fidelius Charm
being broken.
> 
> 7. Do you think Draco regrets not taking Dumbledore's side? Do you
think he would be better off on 'The Good Side'?

Carol:

I don't think Draco ever had the opportunity to take Dumbledore's
side. The offer of sanctuary in HBP ("The Lightning-Struck Tower")
never materialized and I doubt that he believed DD when it was
offered. He undoubtedly regrets joining the DEs (or being recruited;
it amounts to the same thing since he was happy to join to begin
with). He was already disillusioned, to say the least, in the previous
book, and now he sees that there's no glory at all, only inflicting
pain or suffering it himself. (I don't think his experience
necessarily resembles Regulus's or Severus's since Voldemort is bent
on punishing and humiliating the Malfoys.) I suspect that Draco wishes
that he'd simply remained on the sidelines like Blaise Zabini and, I'm
assuming, Theo Nott. I'm sure that he wishes the Dark Lord had never
been restored to power. Certainly, he's learned that torture and
murder aren't glorious and that the Dark Lord cares no more for his
followers than for his enemies. Whether he understands that his
earlier bragging and bullying led him down this path is unclear. As
for whether he could ever have been on the good side, how would that
have happened? At best, he'd be in hiding like Dudley. No one is going
to trust the boy who tried (or intended) to kill Dumbledore to fight
on the good side. Look at McGonagall's attitude toward even Slytherins
who had nothing to do with it and no DE connections.
> 
> 8. What do you think of Harry's emotions towards Draco? Is it OK to
pity him despite all he's done? Or is this what makes Harry such a
remarkable person?

Carol:
Harry has already felt pity (mixed with contempt) for Draco. Now he
seems to be feeling only pity. I think that's a sign that he's growing
up, better able to understand other people's feelings and predicaments
(and a precursor of his understanding and forgiveness of Snape). It's
an excellent sign that he's lost all trace of hostility toward Draco
and perceives him as almost a victim (though not a wholly innocent
one). I don't think Harry is necessarily remarkable, aside from the
scar connection. Most people experiencing that vision under those
circumstances would feel the same way. It's the right way to feel,
IMO, and it illustrates the (Christian) motif of forgiveness, enabling
Harry to move away from the desire for vengeance that still poisons
his mind with regard to Snape.

Carol, thanking Juli for the questions and summary