Everything you never wanted to know about Professor Quirrell

[Goddlefrood]

No: HPFGUIDX 179809

> > lizzyben:
> > > Quirrel is only person that I'm sure he's killed directly.
(Talking of Dumbledore the elder)

> > SSSusan:
> > Uh. Wha-??? 
<SNIP balance as it says it all>

> Amontillada

> I, too, was wondering about that.
<SNIP>
> If one person "killed Quirrell," I think that person was 
> Voldemort.

Goddlefrood:

I agree with SSSusan and Amontillada largely due to the quotes 
provided by Amontillada. However, it is clear that no effort 
was made to treat Quirrell by Dumbledore. That Quirrell was 
alive, albeit it barely, when Dumbledore arrived on the scene 
is an easy conclusion to make from the available snippets in 
canon in respect of this matter. Could Dumbledore have done 
anything to save Quirinus? The answer is probably not. Does 
that make him responsible for Quirrel's death? Again, the 
answer is probably not, but there is certainly room for the 
view that Dumbledore didn't even try to help Quirrell and so, 
is at least partially responsible for his death. Indirectly 
though, and not as earlier averred by Lizzyben directly. LV 
was more directly to blame, having no regard for QQ whatsoever.

It's easy to blame Dumbledore for everything, but in this post 
I want to shift the focus to Quirrell. In that regard allow me 
to post a discussion that occurred off-line with our resident 
Quirrell expert, Constance Vigilance, who has not posted for a 
while, and whom I notify that my address for service is:

Goddlefrood
P. O. Box 39573058
Varasa Island (meaning onion island)
Fiji

This address is provided in case any complaint is forthcoming 
from Ms. Vigilance.

The discussion began on list and a search for Josef 
Djugashvili and Lev Davidovitch Broinstein as author 
would take anyone interested to the bulk of it. The 
continuation dissects Quirrell's life a little:

Goddlefrood (pre-DH):

Once more your theory was of interest. I'm sorry to
say I'm not a fan of Mr. Granger but I'll dissect what
you say a little.
 
> CV:
> Well, Mr. Grant, regarding Quirrell's alma mater,
> let's take a look.
 
> Here is what we know:
 
> Quirrell is well trained in Dark Arts - enough to be
> hired by Dumbledore to teach. Of course, D may have
> been less than picky, but let's assume Q got his
> post on merit. And he actually was a good teacher
> until he picked up a parasite.
 
> Quirrell is good with trolls.

Vladimir Ulyanov:

Up to this point I would agree with the analysis. I'm
going to write this from memory, rather than crib from
any sources.

> CV:
> Quirrell prefers Norwegian dragons, eschewing all of
> the local varieties (Welsh greens, Hebredean Blacks,
> etc.) which could be gotten much easier than zipping
> to the northern realm and back between classes.

Norma Jean Baker:

This one I can't give you. Although Norbert is
indubitably a Norwegian Ridgeback there is too little
else given to make the assumption that that breed was
Quirrell's preferred one.

The only firm fact we have, barring whatever might be
stated in FB&WTFT, relative to dragons is that the
largest colony is in Romania. That each country or
region that has a dragon breed named for it may have
some remaining specimens is not a matter with which I
would disagree, however. You have a point, in other
words, but it is rather spurious.

> CV:
> I believe those are facts beyond dispute.

Varo:

See above.
 
> Furthermore, trolls are of Scandinavian legend.
> Trolls sometimes herd dragons. (I have some links
> for that, but I'm too lazy to look for them right
> now. They do. Honest.)

Nicholas Brakespeare:

There are, it's true, many troll legends from
Scandinavia. However, other parts of Europe also have
their own trolls stories. One such troll legendarily
lived not a million miles away from the Forest of
Dean. Whenever one is proximate to it it is wise to
say "Good morning (or appropriate time of day) Newton
Beck". I know this because I too, like Ms. Rowling,
originate from that part of the world and grew up
there only a couple of years behind her.

> CV:
> Let's assume that Q has some contacts in Scandinavia
> where he learned to handle trolls and found a dealer
> of rare dragons. Since she made such a point of the
> rareness of the type of dragon, I think JKR is
> pointing us to the idea that this dragon would be
> found only in northern Scandinavia.

Edward Marshall Hall:

I never make assumptions, too tricky to deal with the
consequences should they prove inaccurate. The dragon
egg in question could equally have come from Willie
Widdershins, Mundungus Fletcher or one of their ilk,
so that simplifies matters even further. Quirrell
would not have to leave the vicinity of Hogsmeade to
have obtained the egg if that were the case, although
it's another matter I doubt we'll ever have clarity
on.

>CV:
> Quirrell had a problem. He needed a dragon egg to
> fool Hagrid. There is a time problem with dragon
> eggs. You can't let them cool off or the baby dragon
> will die. Quirrell has his own time problem. He is
> being stealthy. He can't be gone long enough to be
> missed. How to get to Norway and back with a dragon
> egg before the egg gets cold or he is missed?

Harry Webb:

Agreed up to a point. My above solution would work
just as well and preclude any trip to Norway.

> CV:
> Broomstick, thestral? Nope - too slow.
> Knight Bus? Nope. Over water.
> Apparate? Maybe, but they don't seem to apparate
> over long distances. Dumbledore doesn't apparate
> even when he is going to London. 

Gordon Sumner:

Dumbledore misses few opportunities not to apparate.
He has said, iirc, that he prefers a more leisurely
way of travel, so it avails little to compare his MO
to Quirrell's possible mode of travel. Naturally a
stroll to Hogsmeade takes almost no time at all.

> CV:
> How about the lake portal to Durmstrang? That would
> work, but only if the other end is in Scandinavia.

> There has been a lot of discussion and analysis
> about where Durmstrang is. All the clues point
> towards Norway except the names of the school,
> teachers and students. But the names of the faculty
> and students can be explained by noting that
> Durmstrang is a magnet school for students all over
> Europe who want to learn the Dark Arts. Draco told
> us that.

Quisling:

The analysis of Norway as the venue for Durmstrang is
not one with which I concur. Not that I have actually
gone too deeply into the matter, although I probably
could. It seems more likely that Durmstrang is
situated on the Baltic. If that is the case then
Norway is really out.

> CV:
> How about the school name? I think the hint is from
> Dumbledore's frog card. Grindelwald in 1945. Even
> before JKR told Melissa Anelli that 1945 and WWII is
> significant, I had already made that connection. And
> what was happening in Norway in 1945? Occupation by
> Nazis. I think we will find that Nazi wizards were
> sent to occupied Norway to take over an existing
> magic school, rename it, and establish a curriculum
> heavy in the Dark Arts, which it is to this day.
> Imagine my smugness when I found an early quote from
> JKR, which has not made it to Accio Quote yet. The
> question was asked, where is Durmstrang. She said
> that it was in Norway or northern Sweden, but that
> the location is secret and she could be wrong.

Goddlefrood:

Try searching for Sturm und Drang and then let me know
your thoughts. If there is any credence in the early
quote to which you refer, and btw there are many that
are not at accio-quote, then Northern Sweden of the
two proposals would be more likely.

> CV: 
> So far, I think I'm pretty solid.

Goddlefrood:

Certainly, there could be some merit in the thought
train you have followed.

> CV:
> It is not that much of a leap to decide that
> Quirrell learned his Dark Arts and troll skills at
> Durmstrang. Besides, it fits in nicely with his
> pairing with Krum. That was the latest bit that I
> added to the picture after a lecture from John
> Granger (www.hogwartsprofessor.com) on the spiritual
> imagery and literary alchemy of HP. In this style of
> writing, twins are common. We have lots of twins,
> both literal ones (Weasleys, Patils) and figurative
> ones (the maruaders/the Trio plus Neville,
> Harry/Draco, Snape/James, etc) That's when it
> occurred to me that Quirrell and Krum were also this
> type of twins. Unfortunately, in literary alchemy,
> twins usually die.

> I think JKR will give Gred and Forge a reprieve by
> having Q/K be the doomed twinset. Q either is
> already toast or will certainly be so by the end of
> Book 7. I think it doesn't look good for Krum.

Goddlefrood:

I've written up a post on Homorphus before now, which
may interest you. It is at the group under a title
that would include Homorphus. My conclusion may be of
some intrigue to you and add further to your twins
views.

As I said earlier, I'm not a fan of Mr. Granger, I
will, hopefully before DH, do a post on why there is
little merit in the alchemy based interpretations of
JKR's world. There is some, but not a great deal. It
may also surprise you, it certainly pleased me, to
learn that Hagrid will almost certainly not die. As
many of the Alchemy theories lead to a conclusion that
he will this information could be tricky to factor in.
There are a good number of red haired people in the WW
so possibly the alchemists would see one of them dying
instead of Hagrid as a validation of their theories. I
would not, sad to say.

> CV:
> OK, here comes some pure speculation. Just my
> thinking.
 
> In the dungeon. Quirrell is in pain. Harry is being
> taken to the hospital. What would Dumbledore do?
 
> I think he helped Quirrell back to some degree of
> health. When the Voldysite off his head, I think
> Quirrell's head literally cleared and he and
> Dumbledore had a good talk.

Goddlefrood:

Possible, but like I said at list I doubt we'll find
out a great deal more about it.

> CV:
> Everybody thinks Quirrell is dead. *Everybody*. He
> would make an excellent agent to go back to
> Durmstrang and recruit trolls and Durmstrang
> students for the Final Battle. Dumbledore likes
> using spies. 

Goddlefrood:

There are a great number of spies of which we are
already aware, I'm prepared to agree there will be
more we are unaware of so far revealed. I find it
unlikely Quirrell would be one of them.

> CV: 
> I think Quirrell took Myrtle's pipes to the lake and
> used a First Year boat to get to Durmstrang, where
> he's been for the past several books. This is sort
> of my pet theory because it makes good use of some
> random facts that we've had that aren't serving any
> useful purpose.

> If Quirrell doesn't go through the pipes to the lake
> and take a First Year boat to Durmstrang, then I bet
> SOMEBODY will. The pipes and the boats are Chekov's
> guns. 
 
> As is the unicorn blood. If it didn't keep Quirrell
> alive, then it had no purpose at all in the story. 

Goddlefrood:

Intersting again. I offer an alternative. I do think
there is merit in travel by means of water. That there
is a lake underground at Gringotts is not a matter
that can be overlooked in that regard. I'm sure you
are aware of the thoughts put out there on that issue.

Goddlefrood (post-DH):

The assistance of the various authors mentioned throughout 
the above extract is hereby acknowledged, may their souls 
rest in peace excepting those of Messrs. Webb and Sumner, 
who are still amongst us.