Failed Friendships (was:Re:Draco, Narcissa and Harry)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 179897

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > The final battle took place between two guys of a similar blood   
> > background and with similar views on magic use. 
> > <snip>

> >>Pippin:
> Similar views on magic use?
> I must have missed the part where Harry desecrated corpses, burst
> out of the back of someone's head, convinced people there was no 
> good and evil, slaughtered unicorns, drank their blood and         
> instituted wholesale use of the Unforgivables. 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
You're pointing out the difference between a psycho and a non-
pyscho.  But there's not really a difference in the the type of magic 
used, as in one uses dark magic and the other does not.  Both 
Voldemort and Harry are quite pragmatic about what magic they use I 
think, each choosing to use what works.  And if it takes an 
Unforgivable, as we've seen, Harry is willing and able.  So yeah, I 
didn't see any sort of overall condemnation of "dark magic" in the 
end there.  (Which is handy since "dark magic" is never really 
defined as has been discussed before.)

> >>Pippin:
> As for the pureblood mania, I didn't noticed Harry using anyone's
> blood status to determine how powerful a wizard they might be or
> whether they were worthy to study magic.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Yeah, but obviously, neither was the half-blood Voldemort.  I mean, 
not really.  The whole blood thing was more pasted on and not 
something Voldemort dedicated his life to.

> >>Pippin:
> Of course there's House rivalry, but it's friendly for the most    
> part.

Betsy Hp:
Until it's not.

> >>Pippin:
> People are disappointed if their house loses, but not frightened. It
> isn't the end of the world. 

Betsy Hp:
Yeah, but that's got nothing to do with anything.  The house rivalry 
still exists and is still important and a Slytherin and a Gryffindor 
are never going to be friends.

> >>Pippin:
> > OTOH, at the end of DH dark magic has been defeated.
> > <snip>

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Huh?  *Voldomort* was defeated at the end of DH.  I suspect 
> > Unforgivables would still work.

> >>Pippin:
> They work, but it's been shown that using them to take over 
> the WW won't.

Betsy Hp:
Okay.  But that's also meaningless.  Using polyjuice to take over the 
WW doesn't work either.  Doesn't mean there's been a defeat of 
polyjuice.

> >>Pippin:
> <snip>
> We do not see Harry question his use of the cruciatus curse or the
> expulsion of the Slytherins. But his elation shows us that he should
> have. 

Betsy Hp:
Well, *I* think so, but I don't see anything to suggest JKR wanted us 
to think so.  And since Harry doesn't ever question or think about 
his ease with dark magic, any questioning or challenging of dark 
magic does not occur.  Ergo, the end of the series has little to 
nothing to say about dark magic and has nothing to do with defeating 
it.

> >>Pippin:
> We don't see him question his feeling okay with the condition
> of the maimed babything -- but we did see him go back and try to
> save Voldemort from making that choice anyway. 

Betsy Hp:
In a very half-assed and flippant way.  Which is fine because it was 
lost cause anyway.  You don't "cure" a psycho by asking them to 
rethink things.  However, we do walk away from the books with the 
image of our hero not attempting to succor a pained and crying 
infant, which was an interesting choice on JKR's part.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/179863

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Yes, I totally agree that one of the (many!) bad things about
> > Slytherin is their bigotry. But I didn't get the sense that Harry
> > (or Gryffindor) was too concerned about challenging that bigotry.

> >>Pippin:
> Harry and Gryffindor do not challenge Slytherin's beliefs, they
> challenged Slytherin and Voldemort's attempts to enforce them on
> everybody.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Wait a minute, I thought you thought Slytherin didn't side with 
Voldemort. <rbeg>  

Again, Harry isn't worried about the whys and wherefores of the 
(incredibly easy) destruction of the WW under Voldemort's (far too 
fast to be belived) coup.  He just wants Voldemort dead.  And he 
achieves that.  There's no attempt to change the viewpoints of the WW 
when it comes to muggles and muggleborns.  I mean, Hermione woes a 
bit about being a victim and takes a moment or two to relate to 
Griphook (before taking full advantage of being a member of 
the "superior" race).  But there's no attempt to *really* look at and 
tackle the bigotry of the WW.  It's just one more bad thing about 
Slytherins.  One of the bad things that can't be fixed, apparently.

> >>Pippin:
> Canon doesn't see separate but equal as a big problem if it's      
> voluntary, though it may be hard for some of us with a melting pot 
> mythology to embrace that point of view.

Betsy Hp:
I've never been a fan of the prime directive, so yeah, I'm not going 
to embrace your bigoted world, JKR, sorry. <eg>  Separate is 
absolutely business as usual in the WW.  Their very world is 
*defined* by separating themselves out.  Oh, and they don't get too 
hung up on that "but equal" tag line.  We've seen time and again that 
there's a definite pecking order.  And it's a pecking order that 
Harry embraces.  (Naturally since he's on the top.)

Since I'm a big fan of the melting pot (though I think 'mythology' an 
odd word to use) and not a big fan of the whole "I'm okay -- you 
suck" mindset of the WW, I'm not going to be giving the Potter series 
world view a big hug.  Too many cooties. <bg>

Betsy Hp