Where's that Big Reveal in DH?

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 180079

> zgirnius:
> Sorry Mike. Search on "prophecy" before 2003. Voldemort could give
> Lily a chance to live because the prophecy that motivated him to 
> hunt the Potters, did not apply to her. And that prophecy was
> likely the first true prophecy by Trelawney.

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/45180

> for example, refers to some of these theories, I did not find the
> original posts expounding them.

Mike:
I found some. The very first one I found was #1667, Sep 18, 2000:

Kelley:
I think Vold went to kill Harry, not specifically James and Lily,
probably due to Trelawney's first correct prediction. 

And Kelley's follow up in #1685:
Well, maybe Trelawney's first correct prediction was that
Harry would be Vold's downfall.

Then, even more on point, try this from Nov 29, 2001
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/30368
Which was more of a "Please don't let JKR do prophesies" type post.

And this from Sep 2, 2002:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/43430

I'm sure there are more, searching on "prophesy" wasn't as lucrative 
as searching for "Trelawney" which revealed way too many to read.

But you all have convinced me. Since I joined this list after HBP, I 
don't have the perspective that you longer members have. I love this 
list, but now I'm left to wonder if all this theorizing removed some 
of the surprise that Alla talked about for people that don't do 
anywhere near the discussion. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed DH 
immensely. Instead of being surprised by finding out Harry was a 
Horcrux (of sorts), I got a fist-pumping moment of "Yeah, I knew it".


> SSSusan:
> Actually, I was one who expected some version of LOLLIPOPS and yet
> also thought Snape was a spiteful, nasty, loathesome royal pri-- 
> git who would always be so.  It never occurred to me that those
> two positions would rarely be held within the same reader.
> 
> Does that make me special? 

Mike:
I would have and still do agree that Snape was what you said. Since 
I'm not particularly interested in SHIPs, I could only hope that 
LOLLIPOPS would not be the reason or at least not the main motivation 
of one Severus Snape, whom I did believe was anti-Voldemort whatever 
his pro leanings hinged upon. I guess I should have been more leery 
after all the mush JKR put into HBP. I'm still disappointed in Snape, 
I mean in JKR.

And, yes SSSusan, you are special. :D

> SSSusan:
> 
> Or just weird?

Mike:
Well, there's that, too. ;)



> Pippin:
> > Likewise there were people predicting puppetmaster!DD who
> > considered that manipulating people in that fashion would be
> > justified for the greater good. There were people who thought 
> > puppetmaster!DD would be evil and Harry would repudiate DD on 
> > account of it. But there weren't a lot, IIRC, who thought  
> > puppetmastering would be a weakness that Harry would forgive.
> 
> SSSusan:
> I definitely didn't predict the DD we got in DH.  No way, no how.  
> Puppetmaster!DD for *any* reason -- to the degree to which he was 
> shown to be that -- was unexpected by me.  So in this one, 
> definitely, I wasn't someone who expected a puppetmastering!DD 
> whom Harry would be forgiving.

Mike:
This I can take a bow on. I believed DD in his long, pontificating, 
exposition at the end of OotP. When he told Harry that his "loving" 
was a mistake, a fly in the plan's ointment, I didn't think he was 
taking false credit for anything. I had hoped that he had not fully 
ensnared Snape in this plan. Like I said, I had hoped for more from 
Severus; but alas, that was not to be.



> Pippin: 
> > The biggest flat out shock for me in DH was Harry's Crucio.
> > Again, there were people who predicted that the Trio would
> > use the unforgivable curses and be punished for it. There
> > were people who figured they would use the unforgivables
> > and it would be justified in the text. But who predicted that
> > they would be used and it would be left to the reader to
> > decide?
> >  <snip>
> > And who expected that?
> 
> 
> SSSusan:
> <snip>  But yes, the fact that it was there and, as you 
> noted, Harry was neither punished for it nor was he in a 
> situation where, almost universally, readers would be saying,
> "Heck yeah, ANYONE would have used Crucio in that case!" was a
> surprise.  Yes, interesting, that.

Mike:
As far as being unexpected, shoot, Harry had tried to use Crucio in 
both previous books. I was one of those fist-pumpers that felt 
satisfaction from Harry Crucio-ing Carrow. I accept the analysis of 
many on this list that this was not the proper way for Harry to act. 
But I'll bet many of those young boys, that JKR so famously got 
reading again, had the same reaction as I did. <Speaks volumes on my 
maturity, don't it? :-P >

The fact that he successfully used Imperio without any practice (and, 
no Steve, it didn't happen off-page. Note the *first-time* sensation 
Harry got on page in Gringotts), seemed more of an improbability than 
a surprise. I still think this use was justified.


> > Pippin
> > wishes a Merry Christmas to those who are celebrating
> 
> Siriusly Snapey Susan,
> adding her Merry Christmas as well

Mike, showing how long it took him to respond, wishes all a 
Happy New Year :D