Sirius and his lawless ways WAS: Re: CHAPDISC: DH10, Kreacher's Tale

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 180111

> Alla:
> > In any event, certainly what you describe can be Sirius' lawless
> > ways that Ma Black had in mind or maybe that is what Kreacher
had
> in mind.
>
> Potioncat:
> I listed the events as others saw them. <SNIP>

Alla:

Well, yeah I understand that you listed events as others saw it.
What I am disputing is whether Ma Black knew about them. Does
Hogwarts notify parents? Sure, I agree if child lives at home it is
likely. But if child does not live at home, I think both
possibilities are equally likely. IMO of course.




> >Alla:
> > But it can also be that Sirius' lawless ways in Ma Black head
were
> > his determination to be the first Black to change the order of
the
> > things, the unwritten laws that Blacks do not get sorted into
> Gryffindor.
>
> Potioncat:
> By the end of DH, it appears the child has influence over the
Sorting
> Hat, but does the WW really understand that? I think the Hat's
> decision is a big surprise, and not considered something the child
> could control. So I could see the Blacks being disappointed, but
not
> that it was considered "lawless."


Alla:

What I was trying to argue and apparently not very succesfully is
that we do not know of what exactly "his lawless ways" mean. It
could be something taken literally as in what you listed or any
other rule breaking by Sirius of course. But IMO it can also be
taken sort of metaphorically as in when Kreacher says that Sirius
broker his mistress heart with his lawless ways, that could mean
that Sirius sorting, Sirius' defying Black family traditions by
being sorting in Gryffindor, you know?

Black's family motto is always pure, yes? I am saying that Sirius
broke this motto, this "law" by being sortet to Gryffindor as well.

Potioncat:
> If there were laws in effect that limited what Muggleborns were
> allowed to do, and if Sirius countered those laws, then his family
> might see him as lawless.

Alla:

Sure.


Potioncat:
> What I'm really considering, for the first time really, is the
Black
> family PoV.


Alla:

Eh, I did consider Black's family POV in the past, really. I just do
not deem it worthy of respect. Is it possible that Ma Black loved
her son (Sirius) I mean at some point? I would say it is very likely
BUT is it possible that she loved Sirius as of "who he is"? Well,
no, not in my opinion.

It just so happened that I know personally, socially a family
situation right now where a mother does everything she can to
prevent her teen from fulfilling her life dreams, her potential,
everything, everything. I am trying to make it as short and
impersonal as possible to not give any details and relevant to this
argument.
Does it mean that mother does not love her kid? Oh, I am pretty sure
she does, but she does not love her for who she is.

To go back to mother Black, I believe ( unless she abused Sirius and
I think it is very possible, but since canon does not tell us flat
out, I have to leave it as speculation) that she loved Sirius as
long as he is continuing traditions of Blacks and when he did not,
it may as well broke her heart.

IMO of course.

Alla