Percy / KREACHER / Snape / Poison / Harry

Steve bboyminn at yahoo.com
Sun Dec 30 22:44:11 UTC 2007


No: HPFGUIDX 180136

---  "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" <catlady at ...> wrote:
>
> ...
> 
> Colebiancardi summarized chapter 10 in
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/180052>
> 
> <<  Narcissa and Bellatrix were probably lovely to Kreacher 
> and he didthem a favor. >>
> 
> Catlady:
>
> This has never quite worked for me. Why would Narcissa be 
> kinder to Kreacher than she was to Dobby? Why would Bellatrix,
> who is Narcissa's > sister who was raised with her, be any 
> kinder to House Elves than Narcissa is? If Narcissa was being
> kind to Kreachur because she figured she could use him in the
> Dark Lord's service, how could she make crazy Bella also be 
> kind to Kreacher? Bella doesn't seen able to dissemble. 
> 


bboyminn:

I see your point but I think you are looking from the wrong
perspective. You are assuming after Kreacher's arrival, he 
would be treated like a common servant; I don't see that as
likely.

Picture this -

Narcissa and Bella (N&B) are sitting around the dining room
sipping tea and rhapsodizing about what a hot stud Voldemort
is and how they would love to jump his bones. 

SNAP! Suddenly there stands the HouseElf of !!!SIRIUS BLACK!!!.
You don't see an element of curiosity rising here? What are 
they more likely to say 'Keacher, go bake us a cake' or 
'Kreacher come sit down and tell us when you are here'? 

I think curiosity is going to will out.

N&B: Kreacher, tell us why you have come?

K: Kreacher can not, Kreacher has been forbidden to tell
what is going on at the house of his mistress.

N&B: Ahhhh! So, there IS something going on at the House of
Black. What can you tell us Kreacher?

Blah blah blah

K: Kreacher can only tell you that Harry Potter is very fond
of Master Sirius.

N&B: Hummmm, maybe the Dark Lord can use that some how. 
Kreacher, wait here, we'll be right back. 

Blah blah blah etc....

Given Kreacher's tendency to mutter things as if no one can
hear him, it is likely he gave away enough to induce them
to ask the right questions, leading to the hatching of the
'Plan'. 

It hinges on which you think is the more likely reaction to
Kreachers sudden appearance -

'Kreacher, go bake us a cake.' 'Kreacher, go clean the toilet.'

or

'Kreacher, why are you here?'

Personally, 'why are you here?' wins out.


> Catlady continues:
> 
> And why wasn't Kreachur named Kreachy?
> 

bboyminn:

Because then his name wouldn't be strikingly similar to
'creature'. I think it is sort of a pun. Personally, even
though I know 'creature' is the preferred pronunciation,
I still call him 'Kretcher'. 


> ...
> 
> Allie wrote in
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/180073>:
> 
> << Here's a creepy thought - I can see Voldemort checking 
> and double checking his protections. Maybe Regulus wasn't 
> the only one asked, and Kreacher wasn't the only house elf 
> that had to drink the poison.>>
> 
> Maybe he used humans under the Imperius Curse to drink the
> poison the other times.
> 

bboyminn:

I don't think so. That would be like hiding a treasure that
you didn't want anyone to find, then returning to it all the 
time and bringing a friend with you. That is not how you keep
a secret. I think once the enchantments were in place, he would
trust them to do the job. He would also trust the no one could
ever make the connection between Voldemort and the locations
he chose.

Notice, that when Voldemort takes Kreacher to the Cave, he is
finalizing that Horcrux hiding place and the protective 
enchantments. He drops the Locket Horcrux into the
container, and then plans to dispose of the only witness, and
to never needs to come there again. Who could even make the 
connection between the cave and Voldemort? Who would even 
think of coming to this highly enchanted and cursed place, and
having a look around. Seems very very unlikely.

It also seems very unlikely that anyone would come to the 
Gaunt shack. I'm guessing legends of hauntings and dark
happening would have permanently scared people off. 

Though, I could see the possibility of the nearest city 
declaring the place a hazardous eyesore, condemning it and
trying to tear it down. Still, the placed seemed reasonably
hidden from view, so the locals probably just put the dark
place out of their mind and ignored it. Likely Voldemort was
the rightful owner of the place, and as long as he paid his 
taxes, there probably wasn't much anyone could do. Further,
what wizard could even make the connection between Voldemort
and the Gaunts? Why would anyone ever even think of looking 
there unless Voldemort kept returning to the place and drawing
attention to it?

> Steve bboyminn wrote in
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/180091>:
> 
> << I suspect that Dumbledore and any of the other staff would
> have forbid Harry to go after the [CoS] Monster. They would 
> have taken his information and gone themselves. But, again, 
> Harry is not going to waste precious hours trying to convince
> the adults. ... >>

>Catlady continues: 
>
> Well, actually, his original intention to do what an obedient
> kid would do -- he had information, so he tried to give his
> information to the staff member assigned to go after the 
> monster. It was when Lockhart followed his little speech 
> bragging of his evilness by trying to Obliviate Harry and 
> Ron that they disarmed him in self-defense. I'm not sure 
> that at that point it was particularly logical to force 
> Lockhart to accompany them on the rescue mission.
>

bboyminn:

Well, of course, I was giving the Short Version simply to 
make my point. Yes, in this case, Harry did go to the 
seemingly appropriate adult, naively thinking that Lockhart
was actually going to do his job. Also, naively not getting
the sarcasm behind the other staff setting Lockhart this job.

I think they took Lockhart with them because they knew that
this was a dark and dangerous job. Having the Defense Against
Dark Arts teacher, even if he was a bit of a phony, was to 
their advantage. Again, naively not realizing what a murderous
traitor Lockhart was.

But, regardless of the minor details, the point I was making
was that Dumbledore is not making Harry do anything. If fact
in every case, Harry is going against the wishes and sometimes
even the orders of the adults around him. Dumbledore isn't
pushing Harry, Harry is taking the initiative on his own, and
taking action above and beyond the call of duty. Ginny would
have died, but Harry could have reasonable stayed snug and
warm in his bed. I would not have been looked at as his
failure, but as a failure of the adults. Still Ginny would 
have been dead, and Harry simply could not stand by and let
that happen. But again, and most important, I don't see 
Dumbledore manipulating Harry into doing anything. 

Just a few thoughts.
Steve/bboyminn






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