Harry Potter, REALLY for Grown-Ups (well, PG-13 anyway)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 164411

> >>Bart:
> > > Hogwarts has students from 10-17. Doesn't ANYBODY 
> > > have sex? ...
 
> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Honestly, I think part of it is because these are 
> > childrens books in  the end. ...

> >>bboyminn:
> While I understand that the above statement is a 
> generalization and not intended to full define the 
> universe, I will point out that these are not necessarily
> 'Childrens Books'. They are books aimed at a 'general'
> audience, which is pretty close to the same in terms of
> limiting the more intimate nature of the content. 

Betsy Hp:
Sure, okay, a general audience.  With the mindset that children are 
dipping their little noses into this world (and it's especially 
attractive to them) so please don't show anything too shocking. <g>

> >>bboyminn:
> I agree, from one perspective we have very proper
> Victorian boys and girls who are probably aware of sex
> in the context of marriage, but probably much more 
> unaware of sex in the context of 'recreation'. 
> 
> Other's have pointed out that Hogwarts and the wizard
> world seem very old fashioned, and I think that is 
> reflected the the students attitude toward proper
> behavior.

Betsy Hp:
Yeah, I don't get that.  None of the student body has struck me as 
particularly Victorian in their mind set.  Ginny and Lavander would 
be seen as rather whorish if this were so (kissing in *public*!?!) 
and thoughts of marriage would arrive as soon as the OWLs did.

Instead of a cultural difference I really think it's a writing 
choice.  Otherwise Ron's remark about Lavander's (sorry) *Ur*anus in 
what was it, 3rd year, would have been quite shocking, and the 
couples found in bushes would have been expelled and/or married off 
in great haste.

> >>bboyminn:
> Further on the subject of Harry, I would not expect Harry
> to be very socially or sexually forward.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
But he honestly seems a bit sexually stunted.  Doesn't notice the 
pretty girls until they fling themselves at his feet.  And even then, 
he's not so aware they're pretty.  (The pretty boys on the other 
hand... <eg>)

Again, I think it's more a writing choice, JKR doesn't do sexual 
awareness first hand. But the fact is, Harry isn't merely shy.  He's 
downright uninterested.

> >>bboyminn:
> Draco is another example of someone who, while he grew
> up as an only child, has had the confidence that comes
> from a position of social rank and priviledge. Draco
> doesn't question his desirability.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Steve, I am shocked *shocked* that our interpertations of Draco are 
so different!! <beg>  Seriously, Draco is a little performer. He's 
almost always surrounded by a crowd laughing as he clowns.  I doubt 
it has much to do with social rank than with personality.  If Draco 
had been switched at birth with Ron, I'm betting he'd still be 
working the crowd for a laugh.

But I don't know that Draco sees himself as too sexy for his shirt 
(so sexy it hurts, etc. <g>).  We have a hint of one girlfriend, and 
this a girl he's been friends with (apparently) from 1st year on.  
And we've not seen Draco fighting off hoards of people longing to 
date him.

> >>bboyminn:
> Draco has an easy confidence that Harry, give his
> situation, could never have. Draco is someone who can
> go out into the world and companions will seek him out.
> He never doubts the sincerity of those companions 
> because he just assumes the are all money grubbing
> and power hungry. His only caution is to make sure that
> HE is more money grubbing, power hungry, and 
> manipulative than they are.

Betsy Hp:
Gosh, what do you base all that on?  Draco seems pretty steadfast in 
his selection of friends.  And I've never noticed him manipulating 
people to get money or power or what have you.  He's just friends 
with his friends and likes to make those around him laugh. 

> >>bboyminn:
> I also agree that Draco despite his confidence, shows 
> a great deal of restraint. He can't just marry the 
> first pretty skirt that catches his eye. He needs to
> consider things like rank, wealth, and breeding.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Wait, you're not basing this on the fact that Draco didn't *rape* 
Madame Rosmerta are you?  Because that seems to be a bit of leap, 
IMO.  ("Oh, he didn't rape that woman; it must be because he's 
worried about her rank.")

Also, Draco dated (or is dating) Pansy, with whom he's been friends 
for several years.  I don't see what you're basing this idea of a 
cynical consideration of rank, etc. on exactly. 

> >>bboyminn:
> Harry on the other hand, seems, as you point out, to
> be oblivious to the girls around him, and rightly so.
> Since he is the famous 'Boy Who Lived', he can't trust
> anyone to like him for him rather than his status.

Betsy Hp:
It's more the obliviousness of not noticing who in his class has nice 
boobs or nice legs, or is Tonks quite pretty or not so much.  I mean, 
I'm not saying Harry isn't a player and isn't that unrealistic.  I'm 
saying Harry doesn't notice girls much at all.  And he certainly 
doesn't seem to find them physically intriguing. (He notices Ginny's 
hair, but nothing about her body at all, for example.)

Again, I think this is a writing choice and not intended as an 
insight into Harry.  But it does, especially as Harry enters his 
teenage years, make the story more fairytale and much less realistic.

> >>bboyminn:
> <snip>
> As to Slytherin vs Gryffindors in the arena of romance,
> I think certainly Slytherins in general have an easy
> confidence and comfort in this area. They assume that
> they are desirable, and that anyone else who can't see
> that is obviously wrong. 

Betsy Hp:
Oh, I don't think Slytherins are *that* comfortable with themselves.  
(A bit unrealistic to think a whole House is that confident, IMO.)  I 
just think they might be a bit more sensual in the end.  A bit more 
open to the birds and the bees stuff.

> >>bboyminn:
> Gryffindors on the other hand take a far more noble and
> restrained approach; gentlemen to the core.

Betsy Hp:
Heh.  Not with the twins in their ranks.  No, the Gryffindor are not 
very much gentlemen at all.  Except for Neville, who is their only 
link to their chivalrous past (no wonder they're not too fond of 
him).  I'm not sure JKR sets too much store by gentlemen, frankly. 

Betsy Hp