The Continuing Tragedy of Severus Snape: Reflections on Books 1-5

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 164521

Cassy wrote:
> Apologies if I'm going over old ground but I've been wondering 
recently about Snape's other greatest regrets (Loyal!Snape, that is!)
and how they've been accumulating with each book... but in a way that
is mostly unacknowledged in the text. No-one wonder Snape is so
angst-ridden, he's indirectly responsible for quite a few catastrophes
prior to HBP!

Carol responds:
I've come back to the original post because I don't agree with any of
the previous responses. Needless to say, I don't agree with this
reading of DDM!Snape, either.
> 
Cassy:
> PS/SS:
> Already Snape's bitter, childish jealously of Dumbledore's
relationship with Harry (manifested in his spitting at the Quidditch
match) seems to be warping his judgment. Snape ill-advisedly pursues
his own investigation of Quirrell (though we assume Dumbledore had it
covered) perhaps hoping to thwart him single-handedly and so regain
DD's favour? As it is, Snape fails (despite his best efforts) to
prevent Harry a) rushing into danger, b) nearly dying and c) defeating
Quirrell and taking the credit. Add to that DD's public demonstration
at the Leaving Feast and no one wonder Snape is determined to press
for Harry's expulsion at the earliest possible opportunity next term!

Carol responds:
You're assuming a great deal here, including Snape's jealousy of
Harry's relationship with Dumbledore and his resentment of the points
awarded to Gryffindor (which I can certainly see the Slytherin
*students* resenting) at the last minute. The story is told from
Harry's very limited point of view, and we have no idea what went on
between Snape and Dumbledore. (DD's explanation of Snape's behavior
based on the life debt to Harry's father has always struck me as one
of DD's half-truth partial explanations--what Harry needs to know or
can safely be told. He's certainly not going to tell Harry that Snape
is his chief anti-Voldemort agent at Hogwarts.) Nor do we know how
much Snape knew or what his motivation was since his explanations at
Spinner's End are geared to a DE audience. We know that he suspected
Quirrell of trying to steal the stone and tried to thwart him (failing
because he didn't know how to get past Fluffy and because the plot
required him to be the red herring villain). He was not trying to stop
Harry in order to "steal his glory." Nor could he have suspected that
Harry was trying to stop *him* from going after the stone. At this
point, Snape doesn't seem to know about the Invisibility Cloak, so I
don't see how he could have stopped three kids from unwisely entering
the corridor. And if he couldn't get past the three-headed dog, he
wouldn't expect them to do so, either. I see no glory-seeking here,
only an attempt to stop Quirrell. (It would have been better, BTW, if
Harry hadn't tried to stop him. Quirrell!mort would have been thwarted
by the mirror. But then Harry and his friends wouldn't have had their
dangerous adventure and there would be no story.) 

I'm not at all sure, BTW, that Snape is determined to expel Harry next
term or ever. IMO, he's just using scare tactics to enforce the rules.
He knows perfectly well that he's not Harry's HoH and that the
authority to expel Harry is not his, and when he finally catches Harry
quite literally red-handed, splattered with Draco's blood in HBP, he
never argues for Harry's expulsion, instead giving him multiple
detentions (presumably to keep him from making another such mistake).
> 
Cassy:
> Question: might it have been different if Harry *had* known the
answers to those Potions questions: reminding Snape forcibly of Lily
instead of James?

Carol:
Again, you're assuming. We don't *know* that there's a Lily/Snape
connection. We have only one moment of contact between Snape and Lily
in the books, and it's not a pleasant one. He never speaks of her, and
the absence of evidence of any emotional connection to Lily, in marked
contrast to his anger toward the arrogant James, is interesting but
not in itself evidence that he views Lily as important. (Even if Lily
was as good at Potions as Slughorn remembers her as being, that
doesn't mean she was a potions genius like Severus or that she ever
saw his Potions textbook. Good-at-Potions Lily simply misleads
Slughorn into thinking that Harry is actually coming up with his own
potions improvements. IMO, she's a plot device, as is Cheeky!Lily
whose eyes Slughorn remembers so fondly that he provides the real
memory to Harry out of drunken remorse.)

My reading of the scene in the first Potions class is Snape's testing
Harry to see how much he knows about the WW and whether he deserves
his celebrity status. He exposes Harry's ignorance to the Slytherins
in part to dispel any delusions on their part that he's a potential
Dark Lord that they can rally around (see "Spinner's End"). I don't
think his own doubts on that subject are fully resolved, which IMO
explains his reaction to the discovery (accidental or deliberate) that
Harry is a Parseltongue (and therefore just possibly the person who
opened Parseltongue Salazar Slytherin's Chamber of Secrets). He pokes
holes in Harry's celebrity status (earned through no power or effort
of his own), perhaps on the theory that an arrogant Harry is a danger
to himself and others. (Or maybe I'm projecting my own view onto
Snape. :-) ) And he presents Harry with information that will be
important to him later. The Bezoar question, in particular, has
important consequences, saving Ron's life in HBP (along with the
Prince's--Snape's--marginal notes, which jog Harry's memory of that
first class.)
> 
Cassy:
> COS:
> Snape has his revenge by 'outing' Harry as a Parseltongue and
potential Heir of Slytherin. In the end, this leads Harry to risk his
life (again) in the Chamber of Secrets and to defeat Riddle (&
Lockhart, which is a relief all round). But Snape must be worrying
about Harry dying before he can discharge that life-debt...

Carol:
Why would DDM!Snape seek *revenge* on Harry by outing him as a
Parseltongue? If he does so deliberately (and it's one of those
ambiguous scenes in which we don't know his motive or even whether he
was telling Draco which spell to use), his reaction indicates that
he's shrewdly putting two and two together, not necessarily that he
plotted to reveal Harry's ability to speak Parseltongue. How could he
possibly have anticipated that unless he knew or suspected that
Harry's scar contained some of Voldemort's powers? (Not necessarily
that it was an accidental Horcrux, which I still don't believe and
don't think that even Snape or DD would consider possible.) He may
still have harbored suspicions that Harry was a Dark wizard who
"defeated" Voldemort through some hidden powers and his ability to
speak Parseltongue would strengthen his suspicions (as indicated by
his reaction to the Petrified cat incident). 

Certainly, Snape isn't plotting to get Parseltongue Harry into the
Chamber of Secrets. What gets Harry into the Chamber of Secrets (along
with Ron for part of the journey) is Possessed!Ginny.
Petrified!Hermione has figured out that the monster is a Basilisk,
Harry has encountered Tom Riddle through the diary (which neither
Snape nor DD knows about), and Harry and Ron have figured out that the
murdered Muggleborn is Moaning Myrtle. Harry and Ron overhear Snape
showing up Lockhart's incompetence and telling him that this is his
chance to deal with the monster, and they get the idea to go to the
DADA teacher to help them enter the CoS. Granted, if it hadn't been
for Snape, they wouldn't have gone to Lockhart or tried to enter the
chamber, but he didn't know they were listening in, and he certainly
wasn't enticing them to try to save Ginny themselves. The life debt to
James has nothing to do with it. (And that's the one scene where we
see concrete evidence of Snape's concern for the students' safety: his
hand gripping a chair when he hears that a student has been taking
into the chamber.)
> 
Cassy:
> Question: does Snape suspect that Harry's scar is a Horcrux?

Carol:
I seriously doubt it. He may suspect that it contains powers that he
acquired from Voldemort, but that's another matter. Or he may suspect
that Harry is a Dark wizard in the making, a second Tom Riddle who
really is responsible for Petrifying the students. After all, in his
mind, James Potter and Sirius Black tried to murder him. Why wouldn't
Potter's son, who somehow vaporized a Dark wizard at age one, follow
in his father's footsteps, especially if he had Dark powers of his
own? Snape could very well think that Harry is the Heir of Slytherin
who somehow got placed in the wrong House. (Snape may very well
suspect that Voldemort has at least one Horcrux, presumably a powerful
magical object made of some durable material, but I doubt that he
thinks the *scar* is a Horcrux.) Harry!Horcrux is not canon, BTW, just
fan speculation, at least till July 21.
> 
Cassy:
> POA:
> Well, the result of Snape *totally* losing it in the Shrieking Shack
(Lily-died-despite-my-warning -because-James-trusted-you-Sirius!) is
that the real culprit, Wormtail, escaped... to rejoin Voldemort.
Sirius Black is (still) the Most Wanted, Remus Lupin is a disgraced
werewolf and Fudge thinks that Dumbledore employs deranged staff. Nice
one, Severus... still it's good to know you're (supposed to be) on our
side! 
> 
Carol:
The result of Snape's entering the Shrieking Shack is that he hears
only part of the story (the illegal Animagi) but causes HRH to listen
to the rest. (They knock him out because they're not sure who's right
and he's preventing them from hearing the rest of Lupin's and Black's
story.) If he hadn't entered, suspecting the werewolf of aiding the
convicted murderer (and realizing that Harry was also there when he
found the Invisibility Cloak), Harry would not have insisted on
hearing what Lupin had to say and ended up believing in Black's
innocence instead of wanting to kill him. (Harry still has his doubts,
and Ron is still defending Scabbers against the seemingly ridiculous
charge of being a murdering traitor. Snape, unfortunately, doesn't
hear the rest of the story because he's knocked out, and continues to
distrust Black even after he finds out that Pettigrew really is alive
and the Animagus story is true.) 

It's *Harry* who saves Wormtail's life (Snape doesn't even know he's
there in rat form) and it's Lupin's transformation into a werewolf
because he didn't drink the potion that Snape brought him, minutes too
late, that enabled Wormtail to escape. Snape later conjures stretchers
to rescue HRH and even the supposed murderer Black from the werewolf
and any Dementors that decide to return. It *is* good that Snape is on
our side or HRH would be dead or worse. As for Lupin being exposed as
a werewolf, he did that himself by failing to take his potion and
rushing out onto the grounds on a full moon night when he knew three
students were out there. What was Snape supposed to tell Fudge? That
he'd conjured stretchers to save the murderer from the Dementors? He
had to mention the murderer's werewolf accomplice, and the potion he
failed to take, for the story to make any sense. Since Snape isn't
reprimanded for his words and actions, I'm guessing that he did so
with Dumbledore's stated or tacit approval. And, of course, Lupin
resigned on his own, having endangered the students all year by
concealing information about Black that could have prevented him from
entering the school and eliminated the necessity for Dementors
guarding the school, not to mention exposed three students to the
danger of werewolf bites.

True, Snape was not averse to receiving an award for heroism, much
less to seeing Sirius Black have his soul sucked (a fate that Harry
also thinks Black deserves, as he tells Lupin earlier in the book, PoA
Am. ed. 247), but as he twice tells Harry, he's saving Harry's
life--or, at least, he thinks he's doing so by tying up a werewolf
who's about to transform and holding a convicted murderer at
wandpoint. And he does conjure the stretchers later and take four
unconscious people to the hospital despite the danger still posed by
the werewolf.

At any rate, to say that Snape caused Wormtail to escape is to ignore
the evidence completely, and it's also unrealistic to think that
Lupin's own actions would not have caused both the loss of his job and
his exposure as a werewolf (Fudge was at Hogwarts, after all, and saw
Snape bringing in the injured Black, whose wounds would need to be
explained) with or without Snape's later revelation to his students.
If Lupin had not resigned, he would surely have been fired for
carelessly placing students in danger (and concealing important
information from the headmaster throughout the book).

Cassy:
> Question: did Lupin really think that Snape gave a **** about the
Order of Merlin?

Carol:
On this one I almost agree with you. I think not receiving it was a
minor disappointment, but he certainly didn't rush out after the
werewolf who had failed to take his potion and whom he believed to be
helping a convicted murderer into the castle with the Order of Merlin
in mind. He didn't even realize until he found the Invisibility Cloak
at the base of the Whomping Willow that students were involved. I
don't know whether Lupin thinks Snape cares about the lost award, but
I suspect that, as usual, he's telling half-truths (which puts him in
good company, as both Snape and DD habitually do the same thing).
> 
Cassy:
> GOF:
> This is the one I find *really* tragic. Moody-Crouch made one
crucial mistake that should have been enough to unmask him as a Death
Eater. Namely, his (completely false) claim that Dumbledore had
authorized him to search Snape's Office, which betrayed a fundamental
misunderstanding of Dumbledore's character. Snape was appalled and
furious – 'Dumbledore happens to trust me' (GOF25) – brave words: but
did he really believe it? Evidently not. When Crouch cleverly alluded
to the Dark Mark - 'spots that don't come off' etc. - Snape was
crushed. After that, he didn't dare put Dumbledore's trust to the
test, for fear of being more bitterly hurt, IMHO. Thus when Crouch was
given the Veritaserum - & confessed that '[Snape] found me in his
office, I said I was under orders to search it'  - this was almost
certainly the first that Dumbledore had heard of the matter! Poor
Snape. Now he *knows* it's all his fault (Cedric's murder and
Voldemort's return). 
> 
Carol:
Okay, I agree that Snape was furious with Fake!Moody as evidenced by
"Dumbldeore trusts me!" I don't believe, however, that he was
"crushed" or began to doubt DD's trust after Crouch!Moody mentioned
the Dark Mark. He just realized that the person he thought was the
real Moody (apparently) suspected him of putting Harry's name in the
Goblet of Fire. He didn't suspect that Fake!Moody himself had robbed
his office because he knew from the Marauder's Map and the egg that
Harry was standing there on the stairs. He rather angrily conceded
defeat to another teacher whom he thought was loyal to Dumbledore, but
IMO his later actions, especially revealing his Dark Mark to the
recalcitrant Fudge, show him as still very much Dumbledore's man.

Neither Harry nor Dumbledore realized who the Fake!Moody was or that
he had enchanted the Goblet of Fire to make it a portkey any more than
Snape did, and Harry was right there witnessing the conversation
between Snape and Fake!Moody. Harry later learned that the real Moody
had attended Karkaroff's hearing and doubted that Snape had reformed,
so Fake!Moody's remark about hating "a Death Eater who walked free"
would suggest to him what Fake!Moody's remark about spots not coming
off suggests to Snape--that "Moody" distrusts Snape and believes that
he's still loyal to Voldemort. Snape can't prove his loyalty, nor can
he speak of such things in front of Harry, whom he doesn't want to
understand the implications of the conversation, so he goes back to
bed, angry and seemingly misjudged. Of course he didn't report the
incident to Dumbledore. It was between him and another teacher, one
whom he believed to be an ex-Auror who would naturally be suspicious
of an ex-DE. He put two and two together regarding Harry;
unfortunately, in the face of an obvious suspect for the theft of his
potions supplies, he failed to see the real culprit (the reverse of
the situation in SS/PS where Harry falsely suspects Snape). And
Fake!Moody had the Marauder's Map that would have revealed his ture
identity.

It's no more Snape's fault that Wormtail killed Cedric and resurrected
Voldemort than it is Harry's or Dumbledore's. None of them knew that
Fake!Moody was an imposter, much less that he was a supposedly dead
Death Eater. And Cedric wasn't even supposed to be in the graveyard.
Should we blame Harry for telling him to grab the cup together? That
makes more sense than blaming Snape. Not even Harry, who blames Snape
for everything he can think of, has blamed him for Cedric's death or
the restoration of Voldemort, all of which are quite properly
attributed to the people responsiblem primarily Voldemort.

Cassy:
> Question: if Snape wasn't in the Graveyard then where was he during
> the Third Task? (He's notably absent from the crowd, at least from
> Harry's POV.)

Carol:
He *was* absent from the graveyard as HBP confirms. Where was he? At
Dumbledore's right (or left) hand, as usual--right there when DD
needed him to help him blast open the door and forcefeed Veritaserum
to Crouch!Moody. Why isn't Snape's presence mentioned? Partly because
Harry's mind is elsewhere and partly because JKR wants us to wonder at
the end of GoF whether he's the one Voldemort believes has left him
forever. (He has the excuse that you can't Apparate from Hogwarts and
that he couldn't leave Dumbledore's side without arousing suspicion.
But clearly, he was right there on the grounds, probably sitting near
Dumbledore. And he mentions that Karkaroff fled when the Dark Mark
burned, which he could not have known unless he witnessed Karkaroff
leaving the judge's stand.
> 
Cassy:
> OOtP:
> Now Snape's finally in a position to risk his neck spying for the
Order... but his penchant for emotional mistakes continues <snip>
I'm not just  referring to the Occlumency 'fiasco' – but to the stupid
taunting of Sirius Black, (which probably *did* make some contribution
to the tragedy – Harry knew his godfather pretty well, IMHO). This
means that Snape's most significant role – as the one who tried to
persuade Sirius *not* to go to the Ministry on the fatal day – is
completely overlooked by Harry Potter. 

Carol:
Harry is primarily responsible for the Occlumency fiasco, having
refused to practice because he wants to have the dream, not to mention
that *he* entered the Pensieve, a point that Dumbledore tactfully
neglects to mention when he blames *himself* for the fiasco. As for
taunting Sirius Black, both men were behaving immaturely, pushing each
other's buttons, with Black calling Snape "Snivellus" and "Malfoy's
lap dog" and Snape pointing out that Black was seen by Lucius Malfoy
on Platform 9 3/4 (useful information that Black needs to know,
however sarcastically delivered) and implying that Black is a coward.
As Dumbledore tells Harry later, Black is a grown man and is not going
to be prompted into rash action simply because Snape provoked him. His
motivation, aside from wanting to escape from the stifling and
depressing atmosphere of 12 GP and *do* something, was to help rescue
Harry. Black was enjoying himself in his fight with Cousin Bellatrix,
to the point of not paying attention to where he was standing. Harry
at first blames Bellatrix and tries to get revenge on her, but later
he shifts the blame to Snape despite Dumbledore's pointing out that
Snape told Black to stay behind and wait for DD. Dumbledore also
points out that Snape is responsible for sending the Order to save
Harry and company, but Harry doesn't want to hear it. Nor can
Dumbledore safely mention what's really on Harry's mind--Black went to
the MoM to save him because he, Harry, had believed the vision that
Voldemort implanted in his mind. Snape provides a convenient scapegoat
but he's less responsible than Black himself, and much less so than
the real killer, Bellatrix, and the Dark wizard who sent her to the
MoM, Voldemort. (Kreacher, who tricked his master into being away from
the fireplace when Harry showed up to check on him, is also partly to
blame.)
> 
Cassy:
> Question: does Snape *want* Harry to hate him? (Answer: probably
yes, actually, if he blames himself for the Potters' deaths.)

Carol:
Interesting question. Maybe antagonizing and provoking him into
misbehaving gives him a reason to hate Harry, but I don't think he
starts out hating Harry so much as distrusting him. And Harry's
rulebreaking and later "arrogance" make Snape believe that he really
is a second James (and "mediocre" at everything except Quidditch to
boot)--bad news for the anti-Voldemort forces if he's the only one who
can defeat the Dark Lord.
> 
Cassy:
> So all this together might help to explain why Snape isn't very good
at the Patronus Charm... or at least disagreed with Harry 'on the best
way to tackle dementors' 

Carol:
Snape can certainly cast a perfectly good Patronus or he wouldn't be
able to communicate with other members of the Order, notably
Dumbledore before the battle of the MoM. Snape may well know a more
effective method of fighting Dementors that's suitable to a class full
of sixth years, most of whom have only cast a Patronus in the RoR
without even a Dementor!Boggart to practice against (or not at all if
they weren't in the DA). We aren't told what the alternate method is,
only that Harry, who knows that casting a Patronus works for *him*,
disagrees with Snape. But Snape is both a DADA and a Dark Arts expert,
and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he knew an alternate method
that's easier to use than an advanced spell that many adult wizards
can't master and that requires a wizard to concentrate on a happy
memory in the face of a monstrous being that's trying to suck out all
the wizard's happiness. I'll wager that Hermione remembers Snape's
alternate method and uses it in DH when she finds herself unable to
cast a Patronus.

Carol, who agrees that Snape is a tragic figure but is not at all
persuaded by Cassy's interpretation