The Continuing Tragedy of Severus Snape: Reflections on Books 1-5

[zgirnius]

No: HPFGUIDX 164566


> Carol responds:
> But how *could* Snape have warned James personally? (And 
by "Potter,"
> do you mean Dumbledore?) 

zgirnius:
Oops, yes, I mean through Dumbledore!

>Carol:
> Snape wouldn't have been able to find James
> after the Fidelius Charm had been cast (and certainly PP would not
> have told him the Secret). 

zgirnius:
As I understand it, the FC protected the Potters at home. If James or 
Lily left for whatever reason, I presume people would see them. 
(Without being able to follow them home, naturally - neither James 
nor Lily were the SK). And one place/reason I could see James leaving 
occasionally would be to meet Dumbledore or Order members. 

> Carol:
> But then James
> would have known that Snape was a Death Eater.

zgirnius:
Yes, he would. Or, at least, that Snape claimed to be one. This is 
not, as far as I can see, a problem with my proposal, since James 
died shortly after learning this information.

Carol:
> Would he have believed
> that Snape had changed sides and was spying for Dumbledore? I
> seriously doubt it. Maybe he could have reported it as a rumor he
> heard from his Death Eater friends. 

zgirnius:
The point of my idea is that of course, James would not believe 
Snape. He would  be sure he was right about his friends. He would 
have 'died, too arrogant to believe he could be mistaken in Black'.

> Carol:
> But I think it's more likely that
> Snape is referring to the warning *Dumbledore* gave James when he
> offered himself as Secret Keeper, to which James responded, in
> essence, "Thanks, but I trust Sirius with my life. If we have a 
Secret
> Keeper, it will be him." Assuming that Dumbledore shared this
> information with Snape, it would explain both Snape's belief that
> James was too arrogant not to realize that he was mistaken in Black
> and Dumbledore's testimony that Black was the Secret Keeper.

zgirnius:
Sure, Dumbledore could have told him all that. And Snape would 
probably still have been steamed about it. There's just something 
personal-seeming, to me, about Snape's reactions in the Shack that 
makes me suspect there is more to it. Of course, it could also be all 
about Lily, or years spent mulling it all over...

> Carol:
> I really don't think that Snape would have exposed himself to insult
> and rejection by confronting James himself. The last thing he'd want
> James to know was that he had any contact with Voldemort. 

zgirnius:
All the more reason for resentment later, if he did so expose himself 
and was disregarded. It's the last thing he'd want, but I see him as 
someone who would also have felt obligated to do it anyway. (Since he 
accepts his own responsibility for putting the Potters in danger in 
the first place). The shakier part of my idea (in my own opinion) is 
whether Snape would have had an opportunity to 1) get new information 
suggesting the chosen SK was a bad apple, and 2) see James.

>Carol:
> And we know
> that Black didn't know Snape had been a Death Eater. If James had
> known, surely he would have told his best friend and SK. 

zgirnius:
One way around this is if Potter died before he saw Sirius and had a 
chance to talk to him. The hypothetical conversation with Snape could 
not have happened any earlier than Peter became SK. Snape could also 
have asked James not to tell anyone else. Would James have 
disregarded such a request? I couldn't say, I feel we know so little 
about him.

Carol:
> Also,
> Dumbledore was trying to protect Snape. The last thing he would have
> done is to reveal the identity of his own spy to any Order member,
> least of all Snape's Hogwarts enemies (or a potential traitor close 
to
> the Potters).

zgirnius:
If the message was conveyed via Dumbledore, I agree, he would not 
have named his source (other than, that it was a reliable 'useful 
spy'). If Snape found an opportunity to confront Potter directly, 
Dumbledore would not be involved.

> Carol:
>Why in the world would the Potters want the Fidelius
> Charm to be public knowledge or to endanger their friend Sirius 
Black
> by having the general public, and therefore the DEs, thinking that 
he
> was the Secret Keeper? 

zgirnius:
I was not suggesting they were planning to advertise it. Merely that 
the point of the switch WAS to tell those who would know about the 
FC, that their SK was Black. Which, we both agree, could have 
included Snape (via Dumbledore).

>Carol:
>(Even Lupin seems only to have
> been told of the SK *plan.* He wasn't informed of the switch and
> consequently, he wasn't in on the Secret, which explains why he 
didn't
> show up at Godric's Hollow or join Sirius in going after Peter.)

zgirnius:
And illustrates my point. All who knew there was a Secret, were told 
Black was its Keeper. I presume the only people who knew the whole 
truth were the Potters, Sirius, and Peter (until he told Voldemort). 
I do think they must have been planning to use notes, or something of 
the sort, for Peter to communicate the secret to friends the Potters 
wished to enable to visit them. Because they did plan to keep Peter's 
role a secret, which means either they would never allow anyone to 
know the secret, or they envisioned a means of communicating IT 
without revealing Peter's involvement.

> Carol:
> Just why it took so long to cast the spell is unclear since Snape's
> information had to be obtained before he joined the Hogwarts staff 
in
> September. 

zgirnius:
Not necessarily. Surely teachers occasionally leave campus, on 
evenings or weekends when they are not on duty? We know Dumbledore 
does. I can't imagine he forbids the staff to do so as well.