The Continuing Tragedy of Severus Snape: Reflections on Books 1-5

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 164574

Cassy wrote:
><snip>
> Your account is a little harsh on Lupin, IMHO. Yes, he should have
taken his Potion but his contribution to the tragedy was ultimately no
worse than Snape's. Severus (with the very best of intentions) a)
refused to listen to Lupin's explanation despite HRH pleading with him
to do so, b) as a result had to be immobilized by the trio so wasn't
able to help in the crisis of Lupin's transformation & Wormtail's
escape, c) did his level best to see Sirius reduced to a fate worse
than death, d) caused a scene in the hospital wing which could have
exposed Dumbledore's involvement in illegal Time-turning and e) outed
ex-Order Member, Remus Lupin, as a werewolf. 
> 
> (Did Snape mention Lupin to Fudge? I don't remember. But I doubt
that DD approved of him telling the Slytherins that Lupin was a
werewolf, much less of his behaviour in the hospital wing, which
alarmed the Minister and might have done worse had not DD managed to
shut him up!) <snip>

Carol responds:
I've already explained why I think that Snape behaved as he did in the
Shrieking Shack, so I won't go into that. As to Lupin, I'm of two
minds. One is EverSoWeak, EverSoSneaky!Lupin. He *does* tell a lot of
half-truths and a few outright lies in PoA and elsewhere, and he
concealed the Marauder's Map from Dumbledore even after his
resignation. (Mike, I think, mentioned his exaggerated statement in
PoA about the Order members being outnumbered twenty to one in VW 1.)
Okay, so he's understandably secretive, lying even to himself in PoA
because he has so much to conceal, but why an exaggeration like the
one Mike quotes? And I disbelieve everything he says about Snape's
motivations (the Order of Merlin, jealousy of James's Quidditch
skills), though he rightly credits Snape's potion-making abilities and
skills as a "superb Occlumens."  Is he reversing the order of things,
implying that he resigned after Snape's comment to the Slytherins at
breakfast when he really did so earlier, first thing that morning
according to Hagrid? And surely, decency would have compelled him to
resign, anyway.

My alternate view is DADACurseVictim!Lupin, who loses his job not
because of Snape, who has held his tongue about the so-called Prank
for about twenty years, but because of the DADA curse, which causes
him to conceal things from Dumbledore that he shouldn't conceal (the
map, the fact that Black is an Animagus and can get past the Dementors
that way, the fact that he knows secret passageways into the school
and could be hiding in the Shrieking Shack). If he had turned in the
map to DD as he ought to have done, he wouldn't have been looking for
HRH on it and spotted Peter Pettigrew instead. (Talk about
coincidence? Or was it?) If he'd only stopped to think, he'd have
realized that Snape must be coming with the potion. He'd have hidden
the map and drunk the potion and then gone out to the Shrieking Shack.
Instead, he enabled Snape to follow him and, much worse, transformed
into a werewolf in the presence of three third-year students,
endangering them and allowing Pettigrew to get away and rejoin
Voldemort. (BTW, it's a good thing Snape *did* follow him or HRH and
Black, all of them unconscious, would have been left on the ground
with a werewolf at large and the Dementors perfectly capable of
returning.)

To answer your question on Fudge and Snape, Fudge does know that Lupin
is a werewolf, so either Snape or Dumbledore must have told him. Harry
 tells Lupin that yes, he is resigning, and Harry asks, "Why? The
Ministry of Magic don't think you were helping Sirius, do they?" and
Lupin answers, "No. Professor Dumbledore managed to convince Fudge
that I was trying to save your lives" (PoA Am. ed. 423). Lupin calls
that story (which credits Lupin with Snape's own motive and certainly
*would* incense Snape) "the final straw for Severus" and implies that
the loss of the Order of Merlin is the reason that Snape "lets slip"
at breakfast that Lupin is a werewolf. 

When Harry says, "You're not resigning because of that!" Lupin doesn't
answer directly. He just says, "At this time tomorrow, the owls will
start arriving from parents" who don't want a werewolf to teach their
children, and that h="after last night, I see their point. I could
have bitten any of you" (423). So he doesn't say that he resigns
because of Snape (though he allows Harry to think that the owls from
parents would arrive because of Snape). But he actually says that it's
the right thing to do (which it is).

But the point is, Fudge did know that Lupin was a werewolf before
Lupin resigned. Lupin could not have been present for the conversation
between DD, Snape, and Fudge, so he only *thinks* (as he says himself)
that the loss of the Order of Merlin was a blow to Snape. At any rate,
it's inconceivable, IMO, that DD would not have assured both Snape and
Fudge that he would ask for Lupin's resignation and released Snape
from his promise of secrecy regarding Lupin's condition. 

On another note, HRH were in the hospital wing and didn't know that
Lupin had resigned, but if he did in fact resign first thing in the
morning, he wouldn't have appeared at the staff table. If the
Slytherins wondered aloud whether he was ill again, Snape could have
responded with perfect propriety that he had resigned. Then, when he
was pressed for a reason, he could have "let slip" that Lupin was a
werewolf. But Snape's revelation is *not* the reason that Lupin
resigned, whether it occurred before or after the resignation. He
resigned because he endangered his own students. And Fudge would not
have allowed Lupin to stay on in any case.
 
> Cassy: 
> <snip> Again, my intention here was to try to explore DDM!Snape's
possible reaction to the events of OotP (& his share in them) rather
than to blame him for everything. I agree that the Occlumency fiasco
was mostly Harry's fault – still he *was* only fifteen at the time –
whereas Snape's supposed to be a responsible adult! IMHO he should not
have canceled the lessons however sorely provoked. Even Lupin (not
easily moved) was justly angry about Snape's failure to abide by DD's
instructions here: "If anyone's going to tell Snape it will be me!' he
said firmly. "But Harry, first of all, you're to go back to Snape and
tell him that on no account is he to stop giving you lessons - when
Dumbledore hears -" (OOtP29)
> 
Carol:
But Harry certainly doesn't abide by Lupin's orders. He doesn't want
to confront Snape *or* resume the lessons. The question is whether
Lupin went to Snape as he said he would do. If so, Snape must have
given him a convincing reason for not resuming them as we don't hear
any more about it. And Dumbledore also knows that they've been
stopped; he knows all about the Pensieve visit and understands Snape's
anger about it. *He* doesn't order the Occlumency lessons resumed. Why
not? Because Harry enraged Snape by invading his privacy and adding
salt to old wounds? He could have ordered Snape to get over it and
resume the lessons. Either he thinks that resuming them is futile (he
does call them a fiasco) or he thinks that they're doing more harm
than good.

Cassy:
> As for the situation with Sirius, I mostly just feel sad that
Snape's true role went unacknowledged. Harry needed to see that Snape
didn't want Sirius dead – however much he hated him. And what  must
Snape feel now? Aggrieved that Sirius didn't listen to him (though
given their past relations that was hardly unsurprising); still more
aggrieved that Harry blames him unfairly for Sirius's actions;
indifferent about the actual death; but ultimately sick that five
students & six Order members ran into danger because of a vision that
Harry shouldn't have had ... which is (at least partly) Snape's fault.
Even before HBP, that's a heavy load to carry...
> 
> Beneath a veneer of indifference, I suspect that Snape's regrets
have been accumulating steadily since Harry Potter started at Hogwarts
<snip>

Carol:
I'm a firm believer in DDM!Snape, but I don't see him regretting his
actions at all. He's saved Harry's life at least three times (SS/PS,
the stretcher incident in PoA, the MoM), saved him from expulsion for
the Sectumsempra incident by saving Draco's life, and saved him from a
Crucio. IMO, his only regrets are joining the DEs in the first place,
revealing the Prophecy to Voldemort, failing to prevent the Potters'
deaths, and now, having to murder his mentor and only real friend,
Dumbledore. There's no room for weak regrets and wearing his heart on
his sleeve, and, let's face it, he hated Sirius Black. No, he didn't
want him dead once he realized that they were really on the same side,
but he's not going to blame himself for what happened. After all, he
told Black to stay home and wait for DD, and if Black didn't listen,
that's not Snape's fault. I doubt that he blames himself for any of
the things you've listed. I'm quite sure he thinks he's doing the
right thing.


> 
> Cassy:
> (I like your idea re. Hermione!) Yes, Snape must be able to produce
a corporeal Patronus. <snip> I am just interested as to why JKR let
slip that Snape disagrees with Harry and Lupin's method of tackling
Dementors (though your explanation makes sense). 

Carol:
Funny. I saw it from the opposite perspective, Harry disagreeing with
Snape. Lupin says himself in PoA, "I don't pretend to be an expert at
fighting dementors, Harry. Quite the contrary" (189). Assuming that
he's telling the truth, maybe Snape knows more about the matter than
he does. (I'm not even sure that Lupin produced a corporeal Patronus
against the Dementor on the train. Maybe all he produced was silvery
stuff like Harry when he first faces the Dementors on the lake.) 

Cassy:
Might this be a character clue as well as a plot point? Maybe Snape
feels that in such circumstances he wouldn't be able to summon the
required force necessary to drive them away ... Snape's stock of
*really* happy memories must be even smaller than Harry's. <snip>

Carol:
The same could be said of Lupin. I don't think that Snape disagrees
with them. He just knows more about the matter than they do. In fact,
he's with Fudge when Fudge brings the Dementor into Hogwarts and
suffers no harm from it, so he clearly knows something that Harry
doesn't know. Occlumency, maybe?

But Snape isn't necessarily talking about how *he* repels a Dementor.
He's telling his sixth years how *they* should do it. And Harry, for
whom a Patronus works just fine, disagrees with him, not realizing
that the others may not be able to do what he can do (after practicing
with a Boggart!Dementor and seeing his future self cast a powerful
Patronus).

Carol, who thinks that Snape is made of sterner stuff than you
evidently do (but believes that he's currently suffering mental
anguish over the death of Dumbledore)