The Continuing Tragedy of Severus Snape: Will Snape live or die and why?

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 164591

Ronin wrote:
> <snip>
I am also a Snape supporter, but I only partially agree with the
comments from leslie41.

Carol responds:

Ditto. (Looks over her shoulder for List Elves. Hey, there's more coming!)
> 
Ronin:
> I'm not sure how I feel about Snape dying to save Harry. He may be a
casualty in DH, but I have some theories on how Harry may come to
trust him. In keeping up with the comments and clues from JKR in her
interviews, she mentions that something will come to light about Lily
Potter that we never knew. I've noticed that Snape hates James, Sirius
and Lupin, but never really says anything much about Lily. So, my
theory is that perhaps Snape was in love with Lily or they may have
even had a relationship at one time before James and Lily began dating
in their 7th year. 
> 
> This would explain a lot about why Snape hated James so much and why
he protects Harry even though he hates part of him. I'm sure he sees
James in Harry, but also knows that part of him is all that's left of
Lily.  It may also be that Lily's murder at the hands of Voldemort,
was what caused Snape to leave the Deatheaters and join the order.
Dumbledore may be the only one whom Snape confided in about Lily and
that may be why he trusts Snape.

Carol responds:
I'd say that about three-quarters of the DDM!Snapers agree with you
(and I know of at least one Snape-hater who's considering the
possibility). I see no evidence of any Snape/Lily relationship, only
an absence of evidence that he hates her, which can easily be
explained by her noninvolvement in the so-called Prank, which,
according to Dumbledore as well as Snape, could have resulted in
Teen!Severus's death. I think he genuinely tried to prevent her death
and Harry's because he was appalled by Voldemort's interpretation of
the Prophecy and James's death because he didn't want James to die
with the life debt unpaid and that both his anger at James for having
the arrogance to trust Sirius Black and the nerve to die without
allowing him to repay the life debt are real, however irrational, and
that he continues to hate James's memory (and Black and Lupin) all the
more after he learns that he's been wrong for twelve years about Black
being the SK and the traitor, based primarily, I suppose, on Black's
lack of remorse for the "Prank." (Wormtail, the real murderer and
traitor, he merely regards with sublime contempt.) 

I think he called Lily a "Mudblood" once because he was as embarrassed
and humiliated by her interference as by James's and Sirius's bullying
(and using his own spells against him). In a fair fight, he could have
given James a run for his money. (Lupin, IIRC, says that he usually
gave as good as he got.) And their being in NEWT Potions together
proves nothing. Hermione and Draco both got O's in Potions (Harry and
Ron are the only two who got in with E's and needed books and supplies
because they didn't anticipate being in the class), but they're
neither study partners nor friends.

I certainly don't think, as some DDM!Snapers do, that Snape made some
sort of bargain with Voldemort to spare Lily. Snape had already gone
over to Dumbledore's side and spied for him "at great personal risk"
sometime before he began teaching at Hogwarts, which would have been
two months before Godric's Hollow. IOW, it wasn't the Potters'
*deaths* that made him turn against Voldemort. He had already done so
months before, perhaps right around the time of Harry's and Neville's
births.
> 
Ronin:
> My hope is that in his haste to leave Hogwarts, the pensieve holding
Snape's memories was left behind and Harry learns more about Snape
through this. <snip>

Carol responds:
You don't store memories in a Pensieve longterm. Snape puts his
memories back into his head after each Occlumency lesson, and would
certainly have done the same after Harry's excursion into his "worst"
memory. And after that, he returned the Pensieve to its owner, Dumbledore.

DD stored memories he obtained from other people (and a few of his own
memories) in vials. He did not store them in the Pensieve. (Presumably
he puts them back in their labeled containers when he's through
showing them to Harry as they're not in the Pensieve the next time he
has a lesson.) Whether DD stored any of Snape's memories, we don't
know, but he may have stored some of his own memories of conversations
with Snape in anticipation of his own death and willed them, along
with the Pensieve, to Harry. That would solve a lot of problems, but,
then, we've already had some seven or so complete Pensieve memories
(three at once in GoF) and several partial ones (people rising out of
the Pensieve to speak, a skill Harry obviously hasn't mastered), so
it's likely that JKR will reserve the Pensieve excursions for really
important memories--which leaves Snape himself to explain the rest, a
la Lupin and Black in PoA.

Ronin:
> 
> If anyone is to die to save Harry, I would expect Wormtail, since he
owes Harry a life debt. <snip>

Carol responds:
Here I agree with you, only Wormtail's act won't be a selfless
demonstration of loyalty to Dumbledore. It will be an attempt to pay
his life debt to Harry--something to do with that silver hand, which
is clearly in the books for a reason. And yet it's unclear why he
didn't try to save Harry in GoF when he had the chance--just dump
Voldie in the cauldron without taking any bone, flesh, or blood,
released Harry, and run for it. I guess he thought it was too
late--he'd already murdered Cedric. Or he was too terrified of
Voldemort, even in fetal form, to think at all. (But Wormtail is a
self-serving, cowardly traitor and murderer. If he's redeemed, showing
remorse a la Boromir, I'll be violently ill. No offense to any
Wormtail fans. Are there any?)
>  
Ronin: 
> Finally, I agree that Snape shows extreme discipline in doing what
he does in such a thankless role. He must be driven by something very
deep. To murder the one person who showed him any trust, friendship or
respect over the last 15 years must have stung pretty badly. But he
still managed it and saved Draco and Harry. Whether it was planned in
advance or not, it must've been very difficult to handle.

Carol:
Exactly. He also saved Harry from a Crucio and got the DEs out of
Hogwarts, and sending DD over the wall prevented Greyback from having
him for "afters."

Ronin:
I also agree that Snape would crush Luscious Malfoy. I'd rather Harry,
Ron or Hermione had at him though.

Carol responds:
Erm, Luscious? Makes him sound like a hot fudge sundae. Personally, I
think that Snape will bring the entire Malfoy family around to an
anti-Voldemort perspective, perhaps even rescuing Lucius from Azkaban.
 But what do I know? I expected a prison break in HBP and I thought
that Snape would continue as Potions master, with the lion man from
JKR's website (Rufus Scrimgeour) as the new DADA teacher and HBP!

Carol, who doesn't think that HRH will "crush" anyone except Voldemort
and hopes that the Order (Snape included) will get to work and do the
"crushing" (minus any Unforgiveable Curses, which IMO, corrupt the
soul even when they don't split it, as shown by the Crouches Sr. and Jr.)