The Deathly Hallows

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 164593

loves_the_lit wrote:

> Carol and Snow both sent me interesting comments.  Carol also sent
me links to some threads from Dec about the meaning of Hallows and
some ideas, which were helpful.  I had been thinking that the hallows
might be the actual ghosts at Hogwarts, such as Nick and the Baron.
But equally valid could be speculation on hallows being a place in
Hogwarts, the spirits of the founders, or the spirits produced by
priori incantatem. Or as you propose, all those who died to save Harry
(and the whole wizarding world, for that matter).  But as far as
Voldemort being saved?  I doubt it.  JRR believes there is such as
thing as evil. And evil has to be fought. I don't think she believes
that all the love and magic in the world could have saved Hitler.  He
just had to be stopped.  That's why the prophecy states that for Harry
and Voldemort, in the end, neither can survive while the other one lives.

Carol responds:
I'm glad you found the links interesting. As I said offlist, I think
that the Deathly Hallows is a place (cf. "the Hallows" in LOTR),
possibly a catacomblike place where the Founders (except probably
Slytherin) are buried. (I like catlady's idea of bring back Salazar to
join the others as part of the reunification of the Houses, but that
could be relegated to the Epilogue rather than central to the plot.)
I'm not wedded to any theory, but I hope that the Hallows, whoever or
whatever they are, are more important than the Horcruxes, maybe
somehow their antithesis.

FWIW, it's "neither can live while the other survives," not vice
versa. I take the phrase to mean that neither Harry nor Voldie is
really living now: Voldie is just a tattered soul remnant in a
reconstructed body surviving on borrowed time even though he thinks
he's immortal; if Harry, the only person with the power to destroy
him, were to die, perhaps Voldie could truly live (in a body that
would somehow have to be made immortal and immune to spells, poisons,
illness, and aging). I'm not convinced, really, that he could ever
live, having sacrificed his humanity and most of his soul, as
reflected in his snakelike appearance, but at least he wouldn't have
to worry about any earthly enemy wiping out his existence altogether.

Harry is "surviving" in a more figurative sense, putting love and
ambition and even education on hold until he can destroy Voldemort, at
which time he can become Just!Harry, an ordinary young wizard (the WW
is fickle and will forget about him eventually)--or maybe live to one
hundred, marry Ginny, have twelve red-haired children who play
Quidditch, and become Minister for Magic, to elaborate on Trelawney's
prediction. I think he'll lose whatever powers he acquired from
Voldemort but retain his own. IOW, he'll *live* rather than surviving,
perhaps becoming a talented Auror once he ceases to be the Chosen One.

You raise an interesting point regarding the nature of evil in the HP
books: "JKR believes there is such a thing as evil. And evil has to be
fought." But what *is* evil in JKR's view? Is it a negative, the
absence of good (as cold is the absence of heat and darkness is the
absence of light)? Or is it an essence in itself?

In SS/PS, Quirrell quotes Voldemort as saying, "There is no such thing
as good and evil, only power and those too weak to use it." This view
must, of course, be the antithesis of JKR's (and Dumbledore's), which
suggests that she does she both good and evil as essences of some
sort. It also suggests that evil has something to do with imposing
power on others (hence the Unforgiveable Curses, which I think are
Unforgiveable in more than the sense that their use will result in a
life sentence to Azkaban--and yet I think, somehow, that Snape will be
forgiven for using one because of the circumstances in which he
imposed his power to kill on the already dying Dumbledore). 

Wh *is* evil in the HP books? And is Darkness merely the absence of
Light? (Are some spells "grey" because they're neutral and can be used
for good or evil and others Dark because they can only be used to
harm, or at least were intended for that purpose, and because they
impose the will and power of one person on another even when they're
used in a seemingly innocent manner such as making students hop on one
foot around a classroom?)

Carol, thinking that JKR has a lot more questions to answer than what
motivates Snape and whether Harry is a Horcrux (or what the Hallows
are, which is at least certain to be answered!)