Wanted! Complex Female Adult Character: (was:Re: ESE!McGonagall...

[caspenzoe]

No: HPFGUIDX 164717

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" 
<dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
>
> > Caspen: 
> > 
> > I'm just curious whether it bothers Alla at all that, although 
JKR 
> > doesn't "owe" us "a strong female [adult] character," she has in 
> fact, 
> > claimed to have provided one, and gone on to promise to develop 
> Lilly 
> > and Petunia further on several occasions, and even, implicitly, 
> > Minerva, and yet, she has not done so. Nor, given the amount of 
> > territory she seems to have left to cover, does it seem at all 
> likely 
> > that she ever will, if as she also says, her HP books will be 
> limited 
> > to seven. In short, she seems to have lied, something she claims 
> she 
> > doesn't do.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> That depends on what exactly you are asking bothers me. If you mean 
> that she did not provide strong female character, then no it does 
> not bother me, because I believe that Hermione counts as one and 
> Ginny has a potential to be.
> 
> But as I said, if I would have enjoyed the story, I would not 
> necessarily bothered if no strong female characters were were at 
> all, it is just I disagree with basic premises, I think we have at 
> least one.
> 
> If you mean that whether the absense of well developed female 
> characters from adults generation bothers me, well again, no it 
does 
> not. One because I think Molly is complex enough and second because 
> I do not see that the story is suffering from it.
> 
> Does it bother me that Petunia and Lily and Minerva are not well 
> developed despite her promise? Well, there is one more book left, 
so 
> I will wait, but even if they would not be and I can still enjoy 
the 
> story, it would not bother me.
> 
> BUT does it bother me that she felt a need to say that? Yes, 
> **that** absolutely does bother me, IF she did not intend to do 
that 
> in book 7.
> 
> I believe that for example her adding up the portraits of 
> Headmistresses to be in the same area as DD speech in OOP. I 
believe 
> that she wanted to defend herself, etc. I wish she would not. I do 
> not see WW as modern society at all. I think that if she wanted to 
> write about patriarchal society, because it suits her story better, 
> she should have been strong enough to stick to it.
> 
> And it would have been credible to me that some changes will be 
> starting at the end with Hermione doing it ( improving women's 
> situation, etc)
> 
> But again, that is all assuming that no developments for  adults 
> female characters will follow in book 7. Maybe it will be.
Snip
> I am just thinking that her work would have to include too many 
> things, had she followed all of our wishes, if it was not necessary 
> for the story.
> 
> So, I think you may still get your wish for well developed adult 
> female in book 7 or not. Personally I would not mind to see Lily 
> better developed at all, but my wish for that is primarily because 
I 
> am incredibly annoyed with her implying that James sacrifice was 
> somehow less significant.
> 
> JMO,
> 
> Alla

Caspen:

Thanks for the response. You make good points, especially about it 
being impossible for JKR to fulfill everyone's wishes. And I'm sure 
Book VII will be enjoyable too, even if I don't get the character 
development for some of the adult females I think I should, and that 
I think JKR has promised (very vaguely, I'll admit).

I still think it would be really stunning (even if I can't have a lot 
more character development) to throw an ESE McGonagall twist into 
VII, on some days. But, since I do like Minerva, I'm a bit ambivalent 
about that as well. 

I've made some peace with it over the last couple days as I've 
perused the additional responses to this thread. I still don't think 
Minerva is getting fair treatment re: her age, supposed excessive 
emotionality and softness, etc. I just don't see that she has any 
real disadvantages in terms of trustworthiness on these issues 
compared to any of the main adult male characters. Certainly not 
based upon  canon anyway, but I'll be paying close attention in my 
upcomming rereading.  In any case, it's hard to say whom, if anyone 
is really being sexist (i.e.: us or Jo) so I've decided to stop with 
the judgements for the time being.

I'm not ancient, btw - just 45 - and I certainly don't mind  saying 
so.

Caspen