Krum's Intellect/Father Figures(Karkaroff as Headmaster (WAS: Snape&Lucius)

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 164784

> > Ronin wrote:
> 
> > And Krum, who was a
> > dumb jock was now a charming gentleman asking Hermione to write 
him.
> 
> zanooda:
> 
> Hi, Ronin! This is really amazing how different readers can see the 
> same character so differently! I never considered Krum to be "a dumb 
> jock" <g>. Are you sure you didn't confuse him with the movie Krum?


Magpie:
I don't know how I missed this the first time--I agree with zanooda. 
Krum is never a dumb jock or not charming. He has an accent and he's a 
bit awkward, but he's never stupid or a jock. Nor is he any more of a 
gentleman at the end of the year than he was at the beginning, that I 
remember. He was always the way he is (and never wavered from his 
fixation on Hermione). I don't remember Hermione saying anything about 
his lack of wit. Also, he's never a 'celebrity Krum' who would have 
said "See you around, then." He's trying to get her to visit him in 
Bulgaria after the Second Task. I don't think this has to do with 
manners, exactly, though. Krum's not interested in his fangirls and he 
really likes Hermione and is jealous of her attentions to Harry.

(His trouble with her name isn't really fair--there's no reason he 
should mispronounce her name that way. I always thought it was JKR's 
clever way of giving the pronounciation to the many readers who were 
apparently unfamiliar with it and mispronounced it as they read.)

> Betsy Hp:
> But McGonagall *doesn't* have those stories. Or at least she
doesn't
> share them with Harry. And Lupin is able to stop Harry from doing
> whatever he was going to do to Sirius and listen to Lupin's story.

zgirnius:
I would not consider "Expelliarmus" a sign of a connection on a deep,
emotional level.

> Betsy Hp:
> Well, yeah. But when Harry is in trouble or is troubled, he
doesn't
> seek out McGonagall. He turns to Lupin or Arthur or Sirius or even
> Snape.

zgirnius:
Sorry to interrupt...Snape? When was this? I also can't recall Harry
turning to Arthur for help, though that is less interesting. And
(despite your feelings about it) by the conditions you are giving for
impartant father figures, Dumbledore should be on the list. He both
is a figure that can make Harry think, and one to whom he turns when
he is emotionally troubled.

However, I'm not arguing that there aren't some important father
figures in the story, only that Lupin isn't one of them.

Magpie:
I agree that Lupin's never much of a father figure, but (and correct 
me if I'm wrong and you're not doing this) it still seems like you're 
trying to try to put McGonagall on Lupin's level in terms of 
importance to the story or to Harry. The information McGongall has 
about James is on the level of the information Slughorn gives us about 
Lily (though even Slughorn is more central to the story). She was a 
favorite student, not someone she really knew about as a peer. Lupin, 
unlike McGonagall, is down there in the midst of the story. He has 2-
way emotional relationships with James, Sirius, Peter and Snape, 
connections that drive important events in the story. He knew James 
and Lily as another student. He's a Marauder, and the Marauders are 
central to the plot.

It sounds--and as I said, I might just be mistaken--like you're trying 
to argue that McGonagall and Lupin are really about equal in 
importance (both plotwise and emotionally to Harry) in the story and 
that just seems obviously not true. I would agree she isn't perfect--
like most of Rowling's characters her "type" is connected very much to 
her flaws. But Harry's relationship with Lupin is far more personal 
than the relationship he has to McGonagall. She's a teacher. Lupin is 
Moony.

-m