Bathroom scene again

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 165027

> > Alla:
> >
> > > I am sorry and no offense to you as well, but you keep calling
it
> > > unathorised dueling. I call it self defense and I do not
remember
> > > where in canon it says that student is forbidden to defend
> > himself
> > > from Unforgivable curse.
>
> wynnleaf
> Whatever Harry *thought* he was doing, let's get a couple of things
> straight.

Alla:

Um, if you say so :)

Wynleaf:
> 1. If Harry thought Sectumsempra was likely to be a powerful curse
to
> use on real-for-sure, dangerous and deadly enemies, then his recent
> intention to use it on McClaggen when his back is turned was
> absolutely horrible, showing all manner of evil intent.

Alla:

Yes.

Wynleaf:
> 2. If Harry thought Sectumsempra wasn't all that bad, and something
> he could safely use on someone for whom he had mostly petty
> irritations (McClaggen), then he was being rather stupid to use it
to
> defend against a crucio.

Alla:

Yes, and if you go back to my posts in this thread and some time ago
you will see how many times I said that Harry was **stupid** for
using Sectusemptra. This is the adjective that I agree is appropriate
for him in that situation, I just will not agree to anything stronger
than that.


Wynnleaf:
<SNIP>
> So basically what this scene shows us about Harry is that he had
this
> Sectumsempra spell in his head, that he had no clue what it would
do,
> but he didn't think it any more nasty than a nail-growing hex. He
> used it against Draco, not as some strategic tactic against an
> unforgiveable, but because it was a spell he'd had on his mind.
>
> When the spell was obviously very deadly, Harry was shocked to the
core.
<SNIP>

Alla:

Yes again, who says anything about strategic tactics? I said it
several times, this spell was not supposed to be in the Harry's head
in the first place.



> Alla
> > And the truth is that Draco was firing Unforgivable curse and
Harry
> > was protecting himself. I am going to even go as far as I almost
> > never go, hehe. I refuse to call it my opinion. I think it is a
> > fact. Sorry.
>
> wynnleaf
> Harry was "protecting" himself with a spell that he thought would be
> fine to use on the irritating McClaggen when his back was turned.
> That hopefully means that Harry thought the spell was pretty
innocuous
> -- which means he wasn't doing a very good intentional job of
> "protecting" himself, was he?

Alla:

I am saying that Harry did not have much time to think through how to
do the best job of protecting himself while on the floor, I am saying
that he used the spell that he was thinking about for weeks and was
marked for enemies. I think it is absolutely logical to use it
against your enemy ( not the best, but logical instinctive choice, if
this is not a contradiction), BUT I also think that it is not very
good idea to use it when you do not know what it does, that's all.



> Alla
> > To make a long story short, I just refuse to accept that it was
> > something **other** than self-defense.
>
> wynnleaf
<SNIP>
> Like I said -- you can't have it both ways. If Harry didn't know
that
> spell was so terrible, and instead thought it no different from the
> rest of the Prince's hexes, then Harry had a wide array of other
> choices of spells to choose from which he'd know could be as or more
> effective against Draco.

Alla:

I am trying to have it both ways only in your interpretation of my
argument, sorry. In my head it all very **one way** :) Hopefully I
was clear enough this time, sorry if I was not.

Harry had another spells, sure, who says anything contrary, but
Sectusemptra was the closest to reach for, something that he was
thinking about for the longest time, so it was the easiest one to
fire in the stressful situation IMO.

JMO,

Alla
> Alla:
> 
> > Sectusemptra is not the best choice, sure

Eggplant: 
> I don't see why you say that, it seemed to work just fine. One of
> Harry's greatest strengths is that he seems to know instinctively 
what
> to do in a emergency situation when there is no time to think about
> it. Harry did precisely the right thing, and it's an injustice he 
was
> punished for it.

Alla:

Heeee, I was talking only from POV of how poor Draco almost died. ;)

And actually I was telling somebody offlist yesterday, that it is 
quite possible no matter how horrible Sectusemptra is ( and no I am 
not advocating that it should be used by Harry from now on), it is 
possible that while we do not see it and may never know that 
Sectusemptra was the correct choice, Harry instincts were right after 
all.

JKR said as much that he is becoming instinctively good in DADA, 
maybe it does applies here.

" dumbledore11214 Wrote:
> 
> > Does Draco deserve to be punished? Certainly 
> 
> According to the law he deserves to go to Azkaban for the rest of 
his
> life.
> 
> >Does he deserve to die from it? Sorry, no"

Eggplant: 
> If someone is shooting a gun at me the well being of my attacker 
would
> be the very last thing on my mind. All I'd be interested in is
> stopping him, and if that involved blowing his head off before he 
got
> a chance to blow off mine then so be it. I mean, would you really
> enjoy reading about the further adventures of Mr. Politically 
Correct?

Alla:

LOLOLOL. Eggplant, you quoted Sherry, not me. I am not sure if Draco 
deserves to die from it, but I certainly do **not** think that 
Harry's first concern should be life of Draco, but his own.


Eggplant: 
> I don't understand why everybody is supercritical of every little
> thing Harry does but when Snape does things that are absolutely
> outrageous he gets a free pass. 

Alla:

;)