Seeing gray in a black and white book/Free passes to characters

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 165074

> "horridporrid03" <horridporrid03@> wrote:
> 
> > Um... When has Snape ever gotten a free pass?  One-liner, but I'm 
> > fairly curious about this. <g>

Eggplant: 
> No offense but I find it rather difficult to believe you really 
don't
> know what I'm talking about. I don't think you need me to spell it 
out
> because a blind man in a dead drunk on a moonless night could see 
it.
> An excuse can always be found for Snape's outrageous behavior, but 
one
> can never be found for even the slightest infraction by Harry or
> Hermione. Remember the horror everybody felt when book 5 came out 
and
> Harry raised his voice at his friends once or twice, you'd think the
> poor boy was a war criminal. But when Snape 
. well, you get the 
idea.  
<SNIP>

Alla:

Hmmm, I partially agree with you. In a sense that I do not advocate 
giving the good guys free pass, hehe. I certainly am not going to 
give Dumbledore free pass for example for many of his transgressions 
as I see them, but I do not think he is evil or anything like that, 
just very flawed.

It is fun to debate good guys mistakes, so I do not see why anybody 
should be deprived of such fun. It is  not like I will be convinced 
if I do not see it as mistake, hehe. 

But what I agree with you is that the amount of scrutiny of good guys 
is much higher than the character you mentioned. And again, I deeply 
respect everybody's rights to point out characters ethical mistakes, 
**every** character mistake, but I do find it amusing when Snape is 
given free pass for everything starting from his teaching tactics and 
ending up with murder. IMO of course. Oh and I of course realize that 
I am making the sweeping generalization, but this is the general 
impression I get ( not everybody excuses Snape of course).
And that is again, their right, but it is also my right to call it an 
excuse or justification and not a theory supported by canon. For 
example, if one says that Harry and Snape are **equally** responsible 
for the hatred they feel for each other, I am not calling it anything 
else but **excuse**, because the text for me talks about eleven year 
old thrown in the new world and his lovely teacher attacks him on the 
very first lesson. Basically any justification of what Snape does to 
Trio reads to me as an excuse.

Snape's loyalties, well, sure, there are things in the text where it 
can be argued that something else is happening, so at least with DD!M 
Snape I will not call it an excuse, but even in that situation  
blaming Dumbledore for the fact that Snape murdered him  reads to me 
as another excuse of Snape's actions. Saying that Snape just had to 
save himself from UV (which **he** himself took and nobody forced him 
into, it seems) , reads to me as  another excuse.

And not that I do not do it myself. For example, to go back to 
Harry's using Unforgivables.

As I mentioned in another thread, I honestly do not see **any** sign 
of intent on Harry behalf, except to defend himself in bathroom 
scene, but I was always surprised why JKR said that Harry did not 
have an intent to complete Crucio in OOP.

I guess it goes back to what I consider her being very unclear on 
Dark magic in general and the unforgivables as well ( what kind of 
intent is needed, etc), but I always thought that Harry had plenty of 
intent to hurt Bella. And I thought that he could have ended up in 
Azkaban for that.

Having said that, I absolutely excuse Harry here because of the pain 
he was in, etc. It does not mean though that I would call his action 
right, not at all. I am not going to say that there is any sound 
reason for him to do so, except the pain he was in, but this **is** 
an excuse.



> Betsy Hp:
> Most of the characters are gray.  Hermione is a "good guy" and on 
the 
> right side of things, but she's not pure as the driven snow.  Draco 
is 
> a "bad guy" and on the wrong side of things, but he's not black as 
> deepest coal.  And of course with Snape we can't even be sure what 
side 
> he's actually on!*  He's the very definition of gray. 

Alla:

Are they though? Sure, there is greyness in every character. But to 
compare greyness in say Ron and Snape? I would say that Snape is much 
much closer to the **black** and Ron is of much ligter grey colour. 
And as I said I am all for questioning **every** character's actions, 
Harry included. I am just thinking that a little equality would be 
nice :)

Not a requirement mind you, but I do agree with Eggplant that Snape 
is not scrutinised as much as everybody else **at all*.


Betsy:
> Any interpertations of character that insist on making every 
decision 
> Hermione makes absolutely correct are going to founder.  Just as 
any 
> attempts to force Draco into a purely negative mold are going to 
> founder.  JKR won't allow it, bless her.

Alla:

But interpretations that make Hermione a potential Umbridge and 
Draco, let's see a victim of Harry's spying ( after all, that is the 
reason that Draco attacked him with Crucio <g>) are amusing.

Betsy:
> Is Harry perfect?  Thank goodness, he's not.  Which means we can 
(and 
> should, I think) question his decisions and actions.  Not only is 
it 
> fun (for those of us who enjoy this sort of philosophical 
wrangling) 
> but I expect it's what JKR *wants* us to do.

Alla:

For sure, as I said above far be it from me to object to that. But 
that does not mean that if people honestly do not see anything wrong 
with Harry's actions in one scene or another , they will not 
counterargue.

 
JMO,

Alla