Bathroom Scene - A Different Perspective.

[Neri]

No: HPFGUIDX 165209


> colebiancardi:
> Snape required an "O" level to get into his NEWT classes.  Draco &
> Hermione got "O" to continue on to the 6th year.  Harry & Ron did not
> get "O" and they had not intended to take Potions in the 6th year,
> because Snape told his class he didn't take anything less than an "O"
> level.  However, Slughorn does take "E", so that is why Harry & Ron
> got into Sluggy's class.

Neri:
It is canon that Hermione got an O in the potions OWL. However, it is
*not* canon that Draco or anything else in the class got an O. It is
only one possible interpretation of canon, one that is slightly
problematic (for example, for somebody whose supposed to be an O
student Draco is *never* shown, in six books, to do something
particularly well in potions class). An equally likely interpretation
is that most of the other students in Slughorn's class also got in
because the requirements were lowered to E. But in any case we can't
use the OWL marks for comparison because the students didn't take
independent tests after Slughorn's year and we don't know what marks
they would have got if they did. So I'm only basing my estimation on
what we actually see from the students in the class. 

> colebiancardi:
> So, Hermoine & Draco did get high marks in
> Snape's class.  I don't know how they are fairing in Slughorn's class
> - I am sure they are still getting high marks, but Sluggy is all about
> Harry & his natural talent, which it isn't.
> 

Neri:
To be exact, Draco appears as mediocre as he appeared in Snape's class
and Hermione is as brilliant as she was in Snape's class. The only
difference we see is in Harry, which is what I was saying: Harry was
suddenly working with improved instructions, not the rest of the class
suddenly working on bad instructions.

> Magpie:
> When do you remember Hermione so frazzled in Snape's class? 

Neri:
Hermione is doing very well in Slughorn's class, much better than the
rest of the class (which, BTW, would be strange of they are all O
students too). She is only outshined by Harry and the Prince's
instructions.   

> colebiancardi:
> Since we've read that Snape admonishes Harry for not reading the
> instructions on the board, I can only conclude that what Snape writes
> on the board are the improved instructions.

Neri:
I don't see how you conclude the second part from the first.

> colebiancardi:
> Harry is getting better
> results in the 6th year because a) Snape isn't teaching Potions and b)
> he has the HBP's notes.   He outshines the rest of the class because
> he has Snape's notes, whereas the others don't and are dealing with
> the straight text.
> 

Neri:
This was exactly my point. Harry is doing better because he has
Snape's notes. If Snape was always including his special tips in his
instructions to his class then Harry's situation, in absolute terms,
hadn't changed at all from Snape's to Slughorn's class. He's still
working by Snape's improved instructions, same as always, and is only
looking better relative to the other students who suddenly don't have
them and are doing much worse than they used to. But it is very
obvious that Harry *is* suddenly achieving much better results, in
absolute terms and not only in comparison with the other students. 

And you can't blame it all on Snape's absence, tempting as it is.
Snape was also absent from the OWL test and Harry only got an E. So
the way you present it, Harry is an E student and he's working by
Snape's instructions same as he did in the previous five years, and
yet he consistently outshines a whole bunch of O students.  

> Magpie:
> I thought the exact opposite was obvious. Suddenly Hermione is 
> struggling and Harry is breezing through, even though Hermione still 
> understands the material better than Harry does.

Neri:
Hermione isn't "struggling". She's doing very well just like she
always has.

> Magpie:
> Yes, and in this case the notes and work aren't the issue. The issue 
> is Harry working at an unfair advantage to the rest of the class, 
> which he himself never denies he is doing, and allowing the teacher 
> to believe that his better results are due to his own instinctive 
> changes in the Potions.

Neri:
The world is full of unfair advantages. Some students are richer, some
students have a Wizarding family, and some students have the teacher
on their side. As I've wrote, Harry did have an unfair advantage. The
issue I was answering Carol about was whether Harry was breaking any
copywriting laws or school rules. It appears that he wasn't.
 
> Magpie:
> No, she doesn't tell him he's breaking rules. But she obviously 
> thinks he's getting credit for things he doesn't deserve credit for, 
> which is true. I'm a little surprised that something that Harry 
> himself always recognizes as dishonest is getting defended by stuff 
> like "Well, who cares about classes being fair?" 

Neri:
Well, the way you present it, it is more of Slughorn's fault, really.
He's teaching using bad instructions, and Harry was just lucky to put
his hands on the usual instructions. It's like you suddenly get a
really lousy physics teacher in high school, so nobody actually learns
much, except you do because you're lucky to have a physicist for a
father and he explains everything to you, so you get to be the first
in your class. Unfair? Yes, but that's life.  


Neri