[HPforGrownups] Re: Voldermort learning the prophecy?

[Jeremiah LaFleur]

No: HPFGUIDX 165231

SSSusan

OTOH, she *does* have a recollection of *part* of the night that she
delivered The Prophecy (the main one, I mean, at the Hog's Head).
What she does remember is Snape being in the hallway and being
removed from the premises.

---------------------------

Carol responds:
I'm not so sure that an extracted memory would be uselsee, assuming
that Voldemort has access to a Pensieve. As we know from "Snape's
Worst Memory" and JKR's remarks in an interview, a Pensieve memory is
an objective record of the remembered event and contains elements that
the person owning the memory was not aware of at the time, for
example, the Marauders' conversation, which Severus, some distance
away and absorbed in his exam questions did not hear, but which his
unconscious mind nevertheless stored away. So a person who entered
Trelawney's memory via a Pensieve would hear her Prophecy in its
entirety even though she herself does not remember it. (It's possible
that a visit to Snape's or Aberforth's memory would produce a similar
result, but I'm not sure. Could a visitor to the memory hear the
Prophecy through the closed door above the commotion outside? Would
they be able to go through the closed door and witness the Trelawney/
Dumbledore interview?)

Jeremiah:
> SSSusan, I see what you mean by dropping the prohecy plot-line in
> HBP, however, I think JKR was furthering Trelawney (and, in effect,
> the truth about the prophecy) by focusing on 2 encounters between
> Harry and Trelawney. (Both involving Sherry and babbling) but her
> accuracy is pretty good. She detects Harry with her cards and sees
> the "Lighting Struck Tower." Even though she's not very good at
> being precise, she'd got something going on and I think JKR was
> sacrificing the prophecy sub-plot and supplanting it with
> Trelawney's ability to "detect" (that's the only way I can describe
> it because she's not very precise) the future.
<snip>
> ...Trelawney claims she repeatedly told DD about the readings (with
> the Lightning Struck Tower and his impending doom) and he didn't
> put any faith in them but he still ended up pon the top of a tower
> and died. ...I do think that Trelawney's Prophecy should not be
> ignored to any extent by Harry or the others. it's decision-time
> for Harry. Does he find Trelawney to be trustworthy and does he
> recognize her abilities?

SSSusan:
Very interesting! It does seem that JKR went to pains to show us how
Trelawney was sort of predicting accurately. I like your
word "detect" rather than actually "predicting;" it fits. So the
question, as you're suggesting, is: Why did JKR do that *after* the
prophecy plot line seemed to have been dropped? Maybe it *was* to
keep us thinking about Trelawney and how she shouldn't be ignored.
========================================

===>Jeremiah: (responds)

OMG! Totally didn't think about how Harry could hear and see every bit of
Snape's memory with the Murauders. Uh, Deeerrrr.... (feeling foolish that
i'd forget that. LOL)

I think JKR placed Trelawney's "seeing" ability after we have had 3
established people mock her. 1) McGonagall ruthlessly mocks her at Christmas
dinner, 2) Hermione storms out of the classroom, 3) Dumbledore tells Harry
that he thought she wasn't going to be good and reluctantly goes to see her,
anyway. (that's not in any particular order except for "That's the order I
remembered them in").

Since we have 3 educated people blowing her off it would make sense that the
reader (us) would reject any trait of legitimacy... and then JKR carefully
gives us the clues while Trelawney is reading cards while walking down the
hall. (yeah, I freaked when I read it... had to go and re-read all her
appearnces).

Now, getting back to the question at hand... We have 3 people who we are
sure were at the Hog's head:
DD, Snape and Aberforth (though he's not been proven to be there). DD's
memory has been seen. we had the memory (and we don't know if he's kept it
extracted. It may still be in the Pensive) but if Snape and Aberforth were
there and the door wasn't shut before Snape was booted... well, we'd have 2
other ways to see the prophesy.

Voldemort knows Snape was there. Maybe Voldemort is being short-sighted and
won't pry the memory out of Snape's head to find out what happened?

That makes me think the door was closed and if the memory is on the
otherside of an obstacle you can't see what happened. becaue I'm sure Snape,
having use of DD's Pensive, would have gone to the memory himself and found
out what was said. And then... well, LV would most likely know if he's
ESE!Snape. (Unless it is DDM!Snape and then LV wouldn't know... but the
circumstances for Snape knowing would be the same).

So, I guess the other question is: Exactly how much does Snape know?


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