[HPforGrownups] On lying and cheating

[Marion Ros]

No: HPFGUIDX 165244

Eggplant:
>>>People say Harry cheated in potions, but nobody can point to a rule he
violated.<<< 

Marion:
In that case, neither is Lockhart a cheat. Lockhart took the accomplishments and achievements of other wizards and presented them to the world as his own so he could reap admiration, praise and financial gain (in the form of his books)
Harry took the accomplishments and achievements of another wizard and presented them to the world as his own so he could reap the praise of his teacher and win the Felix potion in a contest.

You need a written in stone rule here?
Okay, according to the rules of my university it is absolutely forbidden, on pain of expulsion out of the course to copy answers from a fellow student and giving them to the professor claiming they are your own work. I'm the TA of a course called History of Science at the University of Leiden and yes, putting in work that is thought out by somebody else is forbidden. If somebody would say, "I found these notes and I want to work with them, proving them wright or wrong", that's another question; he or she would *work* with the data, but if he or she were just copying them without even understanding them, that would be a definite violation of a *written down rule*.


Eggplant
>>>Well OK, Harry did lie to Snape about the book, but Snape is the enemy
and you should never EVER tell the truth to the enemy as they may be
able to turn it to their advantage.<<<


Marion:
Snape is not 'the enemy', Snape is a teacher. In the war against Voldemort he is even an ally.
Would this mean that if Slughorn had discovered the potionsbook, Harry would blithely have admitted to cheating all year long? Because Slughorn isn't the enemy? Or are in your view all teachers 'the enemy'?



Eggplant
>>> Better to confuse the bastards
with garbage information.


Marion
Ah, plural. All teachers are enemies.


Marion
>> If I were Harry I would have absolutely no
moral qualms in lying to Snape about anything and everything,
absolutely positively no guilt at all. In fact it might be fun. I'm
sure Harry feels the SOB doesn't deserve the truth. Besides, being a
convincing liar is a useful skill to have, but Harry isn't very good
at it, he needs practice. Who better to practice on than Snape?

Marion
Ah, nothing better to hide one own's dastardly deeds such as lying and cheating as to claim to be morally better than the one your lying to.

I'm sure the DE's have a same kind of philosophy (or really not so much a philosopy as a feeble excuse): "Yes, I occasionally murder people, but since I'm so much more better than them in any way, and since they are the enemy, I'm entitled to murder them. What better people to hone my murderous skills on than SOB's like those loser muggles?"



Eggplant:
>>>I sure hope I don't hear people responding to this and say Harry must
never lie; this is a war and Harry is in the thick of it,<<< 


Marion
Ah, yes, the war excuse.
Strange.
When people claimed that maybe (very possibly) Snape and Dumbledore were in some kind of  'suicide pact' (if Snape's position were compromised Dumbledore sacrificed himself and vice versa) which is very plausible given the fact that Dumbledore is a war leader and Snape was his righthand man, his spy in the enemy camp and his crony whom he absolutely trusted, when people claim that Snape's AKing DD is an act of war, lots of people don't buy it. "It's murder!", they yell, "Murder is murder no matter what!".
Strangely enough, these same people claim that the cheating in class by a student is somehow an 'act of war' (how exactly is Harry going to defeat Voldemort with his amazing ability to cheat in class, pray tell me) and when a vindictive girl disfigures the face of another girl its somehow reminiscend of appraisals by the French resistance! 

However, Harry did not lie and cheat to defeat Voldemort, he lied and cheated because he wanted an unfair advantage in class, because he was to lazy and too untalented to do the work on his own and because he got away with it.


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