[HPforGrownups] Re: Potions, the Book, and a New/Old Perspective

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 165299

 bboyminn:

> This is why Herione infuriates me so. She knew there were
> better formulas, yet doggedly sticks with formulas she
> knows are bad. That's not the 'run to the Library'
> Hermione that I know and love. If she hadn't been so
> stubbornly /against/ that book. She would have gone to
> the Library and found a real authorized official book to
> help her rather than relying on some dodgy notes written
> in the margins of some old book.

Magpie:
It's crazy. I'm not even Hermione and I wouldn't accept working with 
inferior instructions. It's common sense. But then, Hermione's idea of 
genius often seems foreign to me.

Steve:
> I feel the same about the other students. They could
> feel and suspect that Harry had some advantage, and
> smart students would have sought out an advantage of
> their own. But I don't get the sense that there are
> any /real/ Potions geeks in the class; people who have
> a very deep and real passion for potions. Even the
> best students, Hermione and Draco, are just there to
> pass the test and move on. They want good grades, but
> they don't have the passion to pursue the subject
> beyond the classroom.

Magpie:
Well, to be fair the other students *could* be doing that for all we know. 
But presumably if you're doing it from scratch it takes longer and you've 
got to do it with each Potion. The HBP went through lots of experimentation, 
perhaps after a Potion had first been introduced.

I remember Ernie trying to do something creative in the class with just 
Harry, Draco and himself. He's trying to work out stuff using theory...it 
just doesn't work.

Steve:
> Harry on the other hand, does pursue the subject beyond
> the classroom. It's just that he doesn't really have to
> go very far or work very hard to achieve his advantage.
> Students do this all the time. The straight 'A' student
> are so, because they study hard and seek references
> beyond the textbook, so that they understand the subject,
> and always get top grades.

Magpie:
But Harry doesn't pursue the subject outside the classroom, unless we mean 
by subject "hexes I can try out on people in the hallways." <g> He seems to 
have the same goal as the other kids, to do well in class. His interest is 
in the spells more than the Potions experiments. I don't ever remember him 
trying to make something on his own to see if it works right. He's more of a 
Charms man, it seems.

It's possible that if the book had made Harry interested in Potions he might 
have brought himself up to the A level. But we know he doesn't. He himself 
mentions the drop in his ability when the book is gone. He hasn't really 
become better in Potions. He has added a lot of spells to his repetoire, 
though. That's the part he was studying outside of class.


Steve
> As to the classroom Bezoar incident. It doesn't matter
> how or why Harry did what he did. What matters is the
> teachers evaluation of his result. Slughorn seemed
> very please with Harry's results, and unless my memory
> evades me, he even awardes some House Points. The
> assignment wasn't follow these rules, it was get this
> result. Now certainly Hermione, the other students,
> and the teacher saw that Harry hadn't done the work,
> but he has achieve the desired result and did so with
> available potion ingredients. What more can anyone
> ask.

Magpie:
I've got to go with Hermione on this one. They're learning about Galpalott's 
Law (sp) and the challenge is to use it to brew an antidote. They're in a 
classroom learning about that principle. Even Harry himself says to Ron he 
couldn't share his trick because if two of them did it it would look stupid. 
Slughorn gives Harry points for cheek--I'd also add that Slughorn's 
favoritism towards Harry is OTT throughout the year, and the guy is always 
looking to praise him for things--he barely disguises his double standard in 
the way he treats students.

I mean, I doubt Snape would have found it cute--even if one of his 
Slytherins did it. He would expect the person to learn the law he was 
actually teaching, and would probably make a point of saying that the bezoar 
meant the real challenge was too far beyond the student for him to even 
attempt it--which in this case was true.

Still, Harry's not being dishonest there. Everyone sees what he does. They 
get the kind of "cheat" it is in that he's making it into a trick question 
instead of trying to work with the theory. I don't think there they think of 
Harry as cheating, since he was upfront about what he was doing...I would 
imagine they're just disgusted with his status in class.

Steve:
> So, I'm sure the students were furious. As far as they
> are concerned, Harry 'cheated', but the teacher doesn't
> seem to think that Harry /Cheated/. In the sense that
> it feels like 'cheating' to the other students, it's
> true. But in the formal academic sense, it is not.

Magpie:
Actually, I think Slughorn does think Harry cheated--he just thinks it's 
adorable. Cheeky lad knows his Potions so well he no doubt already knows how 
to do the real thing and he's Lily's Boy and one of the Slug Club. If the 
whole class had done it they probably would have had to have studied the law 
again the next day and really do it right.

Steve:
> Maybe now that I've rambled on for paragraphs, I can
> briefly touch on Harry's broom. If you take an idiot
> and put him in the fasted car, and take a racing
> genius and put him in a moderately crappy race car,
> it is likely that the racing genius will win the race.
> No car is ever faster that the driver who is driving it.
>
> That is true of brooms too. Harry's broom, though I'm
> not sure which one, is capable of Zero to 150 in 10
> seconds. That doesn't mean 150 is the top speed, it's
> just the speed after 10 seconds of acceleration. The
> Quidditch pitch is pretty darn big, huge by most
> standards, but it is not 0 to 150 in 10 second of
> /dynamic free flight/ big. You can't make abrupt
> manuvers at 150 miles an hour clinging to the back of
> a stick. So, instinctive judgement, the ability of the
> rider to know his limits and to safely push himself near
> them are far more important than the absolute limits of
> the broom itself. Skill in the confined space of the
> Quidditch Pitch is far more important that raw speed
> or acceleration. So, NO, having a faster broom is
> of no advantage unless you have the skill to fly and
> control it.

Magpie:
Sure. But all the players can fly. It's not a case of Harry being a 
no-talent on a broom. He's talented enough to take advantage of a Firebolt 
in a way that would probably be lost on Hermione but not on Cedric. Harry's 
not *cheating* by using a better broom. Nobody thinks so. Players do 
sometimes comment on the advantage that he has, and he himself is aware of 
the difference in ride as well.

It's just sometimes it seems to get into that area where there's this 
nervous feeling that Harry's broom shouldn't be judged the same way another 
player's excellent broom might be. I don't think it's a fear of cheating in 
this case, but like I described, this search for the "real talent" or "pure 
talent" that Harry should have, and that can't be sullied by superior 
equipment or advantages like that.

-m