Bathroom scene again /Re: Potions, the Book, and a New/Old Perspective

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 165323

> > Magpie:
> > Maybe I'm not getting what you're saying here--Harry had the 
> opportunity to 
> > confess everything and he didn't. He hid the book, switched the 
> covers, 
> > tried to protect his thoughts from Snape's Legilimancy. 
Protecting 
> a secret 
> > was his priority in the scene. Harry's never been about 
confessing 
> > everything because it's the right thing to Snape. 
> 
> Finwitch:
> 
> Had it been Dumbledore, I think Harry would have. Harry does not 
> trust Snape. At all.
> 
>  Oh, and mind you, 16-year-olds do not, in general, feel like 
telling 
> any adults anything at all... Privacy is a big thing for a teen. 
And, 
> with Harry's background (surrounded by adults like Dursleys who 
are 
> not to be trusted) I'm surprised he managed to trust anyone at all.
> 
> Including Ron, Hermione, Sirius, Dumbledore, Hagrid or himself for 
> that matter. It takes trust before you tell a personal matter 
(like 
> the Prince was to Harry) to someone.


Magpie:
My instinct is to think he woudln't have told if it were Dumbledore 
asking either--but we'll never know what would have happened in that 
case. I don't think it's unusual that Harry isn't coming clean, I 
was just responding to the idea that this scene somehow shows that 
Harry is the type who comes clean about things when, I agree, he's 
not particularly that type at all and that's not unusual. In this 
scene, he's not coming clean about anything. I don't think it's so 
much about *trusting* Snape in this case (though he doesn't) but 
knowing him. McGonagall probably would have taken the book away from 
him too, and while Harry trusts her in general I think he would have 
lied to hold on to the book.

Finwitch:
Slughorn *knew* that Harry, unlike most others, got an 'E', not 'O' 
in his Potions OWL. He must have, that's why Harry needed the book, 
right? So, Harry's success in Potions -- either Slughorn concluded 
it was the book or he did not. I think he did, though, just chose 
not to make an issue of it, mainly because he was just as keen as 
Lockhart or the Minister to butter Harry into considering him 
favorably. However, being Slytherin -- Slughorn may even view 
Harry's use of the notes as a work of a genius in itself -- so long 
as Harry doesn't admit it, anyway...

Magpie:
I don't think Slughorn would necessarily have known about Harry's E, 
but it would be logical if he understood that from Harry's needing 
his book, you're right. But I see no evidence that Slughorn has 
figured out that Harry's book is the reason for his success, 
especially given his gushing about Harry's having Potions in the 
blood, etc. He's never had Harry in class before, Ron has a borrowed 
book too. I think he sees Harry as all the things he sees in his 
rosy-memories of Lily and never even lets himself consider otherwise.

I'd also add that Slughorn seems to encourage himself to always have 
the best conclusions about people he deems worthy (as opposed to the 
ones who might as well be invisible so he can't even remember their 
names). I don't think Harry's real level of Potions skill would have 
made Slughorn like him so much less.

Given what I see of Slughorn in the books I think if he knew Harry 
was getting his results due to his special book he'd have let him 
know it in no uncertain terms, winking and making gestures to the 
book or talking about it when they were alone. I think Harry would 
pick up on it too and no longer worry about Slughorn finding out. It 
seems to me canon goes completely against the idea that Slughorn 
knows that Harry's got a special book helping him. In fact, it seems 
to undermine a lot of things in Harry's behavior concerning both 
Slughorn and the book.

Finwitch:
As for sharing the notes, Harry offered them to Ron, but Ron was, for
some reason, *unable* to read them. It's entirely possible that other
students wouldn't have been able to read them, either. Makes me 
wonder--was Neville perhaps unable to read the instructions Snape 
put on board?

Magpie:
It's certainly possible other students would have had trouble with 
the handwriting, though I don't think that's any reason to say Harry 
could have shared the book with the whole class or explained how 
helpful it was (they could surely have worked out a way for Slughorn 
to give those instructions to everyone). I don't see any evidence 
that Neville has trouble reading Snape's instructions. I think that 
would have come out by now. Neville's problems seem to be 
consistently linked to his lack of confidence rather than a sort of 
also familiar dyslexia situation where it comes down to his not 
being able to see the board.

-m