On lying and cheating

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 165418

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" wrote:
>   <re-arrainged your post :-)>
> Pippin:
> Harry *did* intend to use that academic credit for something.
> He wanted to be an Auror, and Aurors are required to have
> a NEWT in potions. Harry thought at first that becoming
> an Auror would help him against Voldemort. By the end of the
> book he had realized that probably wasn't true. But 
> his knowledge at the end of the book doesn't apply to his motive
> at the beginning. If  Harry had felt that way in the first place 
> he would never have signed up for NEWT potions at all. 

<HBP p.103, US>
"He felt just one tiny twinge of regret.... This was the end of his 
ambition to become an Auror."
<p.104, ibid>
"Wouldn't he be living up to the prophesy, and giving himself the 
best chance of survival, if he joined those highly trained wizards 
whose job it was to find and kill Voldemort?"

Mike:
How important is becoming an Auror to Harry? "...one tiny twinge of 
regret" is how his feelings are described. Sure, he goes on to 
justify why, even though it was a DE in disguise that first gave him 
the idea, the idea had taken hold with him. But he still couches it, 
like you said Pippin, in terms of defeating Voldemort.

He seems to be rationalizing this choice to himself while at the same 
time not terribly upset that he won't be able to pursue it. It's more 
like, 'Ah well, can't be an Auror... What's for lunch?' Not 
like, '*Now* what am I going to do?'

I propose that even from the beginning, Harry looked at the Auror 
ambition as just the most logical of careers. And *only* in the 
context of how to defeat Voldemort. Because, the defeat of Voldemort 
is the be-all if not *quite* the end-all of Harry's ambitions from 
the start of HBP. As he told Dumbledore in the Weasley's broomshed, 
he's not gonna stop living, life's too short. But he immediately 
followed that with his determination to rid the world of Voldemort 
and as many DEs as he can.

Harry didn't have a plan until Dumbledore gave him one in the 
broomshed. Now he's going back to Hogwarts to get training from 
Dumbledore to defeat Voldemort. That's his plan now. And Auror 
training has fallen by the wayside. It's only after getting to 
Hogwarts he finds that he can continue on the Auror path. But he 
wasn't terribly upset before, when he thought he wouldn't be able 
to. 


> 
> Pippin:
> Academic credit and academic responsibility aren't as important as
> saving the world -- until they are. Do you want your kids' meds
> prepared by somebody who faked their way through
> Chemistry the way Harry is faking his way through advanced Potions?
> 
> Somebody who's just pretending they know about side effects and 
> interactions, or how to prescribe antidotes? 

Mike:
How about this analogy: Would you want George Washington to lead your 
Continental Army if you knew that in his only real wartime command he 
blew it, lost control of the situation and led his men into a trap? 
Harry isn't in training to become a Chemist (Pharmacist to us in the 
colonies ;-)). He's in training to fight Voldemort and defeat him. 
He's the lead samurai, even more singularly important to the mission 
than GW was to the Revolution. And George didn't do so bad.

It's not that your point is invalid, Pippin. On the contrary, there 
is a moral learning experience in the context of school, and Harry 
has fallen short, like you said. Valky and I aren't saying you and 
others are wrong. You're not! What we're trying to say is that Harry 
is more or less ignoring this aspect. That there is a more pressing 
need on his plate. 

Does this excuse him? Are we trying to make excuses *for* him? I 
don't think we are. We are just trying to read his motivation, see 
things as we think Harry is seeing them. And we think that Harry 
doesn't put much interest into how Slughorn perceives him nor whether 
he has unfairly gained his reputation. He just doesn't care. Should 
he? <big shrug> Maybe,... yes,... and then again, why?

Oh, and once again, please don't think I or anyone wants to stifle 
the moralistic debate. We're simply bringing up another aspect, not 
overwriting the others.


> Pippin:
> The mature, honest, fair and productive thing to do  would have 
> been to drop the course if he thought he didn't need it, or
> if he did, to admit that he had a weakness in the subject and 
> could use some help beyond the Prince's notes. 

Mike:
This is more of an aside; Harry didn't do so bad before he got the 
book. I'd have put him in the middle of the pack. And I bet he was 
destined to do better with Slughorn than he did with Snape, even 
without the book.

But Harry is really going to all his classes and playing Quidditch to 
fill the time between DD's lessons. Also, he gets involved with the 
whole Draco thing. Still, school in it's entirety comes second to 
him. But what else is he going to do while he's there? Why *not* try 
to learn some more stuff? That doesn't mean he's that concerned with 
his grades, only with what will help him. This does *not* excuse him 
from acting honestly in the classes he chooses to attend.


> Pippin:
> I'm sure Slughorn would have been delighted to help. He could 
> have explained *why * the recipes were better and Harry would 
> have benefitted far beyond the praise he received for his 
> so-called genius.

Mike:
No argument here. :-)

I'd like to add that I felt the same way about the book that Sherry 
did, and I suppose Hermione did in a way, shortly after Harry got it. 
Couldn't help but feel that history was repeating a la the diary, but 
coming from a different direction.

Mike