On lying and cheating

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 165436

> >>Geoff:
> <snip>
> My feeling is that Harry's attitude towards school and work is 
> completely - and possibly subconsciously - coloured by this and 
> by his feelings about Sirius. Other events - his concerns about     
> Draco and his peregrinations with Dumbledore - are making demands   
> on his time and I join with others who sense that his heart is not 
> fully in his classes although he may still be seeking a little one 
> upmanship over Hermione and also enjoying the lack of confrontation 
> in Potions. But seeking academic credit to be an Auror? 
> I have my doubts. I think the episode by the lake marked the       
> beginning of a sea-change in his view of his life.

Betsy Hp:
But what does that mean?  Does that make it okay for Harry to pass 
off someone elses work as his own because he's the Chosen One and 
it's a burden?  Should all of Harry's teachers adopt this attitude 
and either not assign him homework or allow him whatever short cut 
Harry feels he needs?

Was it a mistake for Harry to agree to be Gryffindor's quidditch 
captain, since he's so disconnected from school already?  Are we 
clearing Harry from cheating and lying but tarring him with hypocrisy 
and selfishness?  

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/165415
> >>Eggplant:
> <snip>
> There has been far far more criticism of Harry over this than there 
> has been criticism of Snape for murdering Dumbledore, and that's    
> what I meant about Snape getting a free pass.

Betsy Hp:
As I've said before, there have been *far* more posts on Snape's 
actions on the Tower than Harry's actions with his textbook.  And 
while I've read posts where people want Snape to die because of the 
Tower, I haven't read anyone wanting Harry to die because of his 
textbook.  

So I'll assume you're talking about those of us who think Snape is 
DDM?  Or question whether a murder even took place?  Obviously the 
spectrum is fully represented, and I for one couldn't tell you who 
exactly thinks what.  So I'll speak for myself. <g>

Did Snape behave badly on the Tower, even in a minor way?  It will 
depend on if he actually killed Dumbledore.  And even then, I see a 
viable reason for him to have done so, though that doesn't change the 
action, of course.  (I'm assuming DDM.  If Snape is actually ESE, 
then that changes everything.)

On the other hand, Harry did lie (by omission, but that's still 
lying) about his potion knowledge.  And by lying about his knowledge 
he did cheat.  It was a minor thing.  I'm not expecting JKR to kill 
him off because of it.  But it was also a petty thing.  It didn't 
gain anything for the war effort.  Which makes it worse, IMO.  
Because it's just a way for Harry to slide by, rather than a choice 
to do a wrong thing for a real gain.  Does that make sense?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/165411
> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > Though, to be honest, Harry knows what he's doing is a form of
> > cheating and lying. It's why he doesn't verbally share the       
> > Prince's notes with Ron (to avoid Slughorn's catching on), and    
> > it's why he doesn't relish the "potion's genius" title. It's all 
> > of his listie parents who keep twisting things into a "not *my*   
> > son" direction. <beg>

> >>Valky:
> LOL Betsy is that like Snape's "listie" girlfriends saying Not my
> Snapey Pooooo! <eg>

Betsy Hp:
Hee!  Again, I can only speak for myself, but I do like to think that 
I call Snape on his bad behavior.  I might be more amused than 
outraged, or I might feel like I have a better understanding of *why* 
Snape is behaving badly.  But I don't think I excuse it to the extent 
that I don't call it what it is.

Though, that's just me.  And of course I've seen bad Snape behavior 
get spun into gold.  So sure, it definitely happens.  I think it's 
probably something to try and guard against.  Or at least, it's 
something I try to guard against. <g>

Betsy Hp