On lying and cheating/ Killing DD/ HBP potions book and diary

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 165441

Lealess:

<SNIP of the whole post>

 Harry is Dumbledore's man through and through, whatever
> that means, but is Harry prepared to lead a fight when he lies to
> himself, refusing to acknowledge his role in the deaths of Sirius
> Black and, perhaps, Dumbledore?


Alla:

I  actually would like to ask how Dumbledore's death can even 
**perhaps** be Harry's fault?

I am assuming that you are saying that if Dumbledore died from 
poison?

So, that would be Dumbledore's fault then, would it not? I mean I 
had been reading a lot that if Dumbledore ordered Snape to kill him, 
that is really **not** Snape's fault, at all.

Dumbledore ordered Harry, made him promise to do whatever Dumbledore 
asked of him. So, even if Dumbledore died from poison, how is it 
Harry's fault? 


> Betsy Hp:
<SNIP>
> Did Snape behave badly on the Tower, even in a minor way?  It will 
> depend on if he actually killed Dumbledore.  And even then, I see 
a 
> viable reason for him to have done so, though that doesn't change 
the 
> action, of course.  (I'm assuming DDM.  If Snape is actually ESE, 
> then that changes everything.)
> 
> On the other hand, Harry did lie (by omission, but that's still 
> lying) about his potion knowledge.  And by lying about his 
knowledge 
> he did cheat.  It was a minor thing.  I'm not expecting JKR to 
kill 
> him off because of it.  But it was also a petty thing.  It didn't 
> gain anything for the war effort.  Which makes it worse, IMO.  
> Because it's just a way for Harry to slide by, rather than a 
choice 
> to do a wrong thing for a real gain.  Does that make sense?
>

Alla:

I am afraid it does not make sense for me. You are in essense saying 
that for you Harry using Prince potions book and passing Prince work 
as  his own is a worse offense than killing a human being, are you 
not?

Of course I am also talking about Snape killing Dumbledore with real 
AK, if Snape did not kill him, then obviously he did not do anything 
wrong.

But we are talking about two actions , one v another, without 
looking at the reasons. People offered many reasons according to 
which Harry's offense, well seems to be quite insignificant to them 
and people also offered many reasons according to which Snape 
killing DD was justified, etc.

But by itself, lying in the potions class is worse than murder? No, 
makes no sense to me I am afraid.


> Mike:
<SNIP of the whole post>
> No argument here. :-)
> 
> I'd like to add that I felt the same way about the book that 
Sherry 
> did, and I suppose Hermione did in a way, shortly after Harry got 
it. 
> Couldn't help but feel that history was repeating a la the diary, 
but 
> coming from a different direction.


Alla:

Wonderful post, Mike, truly is :) I am sticking it in the middle of 
another post to be able to say **me too**

As I mentioned in the past, I did feel the same way about the book 
that Sherry did, but Sherry certainly can claim that she was more 
objective than me in that instance, because she had no idea who HBP 
was and I knew it before started to read, so that could have 
certainly influenced my POV.

But yes, absolutely, about the diary. If Arthur was so livid about 
one book, he would probably felt the same way about this one.

Although this one did not seem to be doing interactive thinking, it 
still felt like it.

And we also tried to figure out for the longest time what part of 
HBP storyline was in CoS, did we not?

What if among other things JKR did plan to introduce these two books 
together? To compare or contrast them. Hmmmm, I wonder which one is 
it.

Speculating of course.

JMO,

Alla