[HPforGrownups] Re: On the trivial and the profound (was: On lying and cheating)

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 165446

Magpie" <belviso at ...> wrote:
>> Let's try a different analogy. I'm running to get help for someone
>> choking to death. I jay walk across the
>> street to get to the doctor more quickly. I don't think anybody
>> would say I was doing a bad thing there. But of course I'm taking
>> the easy way instead of the 'right' way according to a law that says
>> I'm not supposed to jaywalk. I might not be doing anything wrong--in
>> fact, doing "right" there would be wrong in the larger sense, but I
>> see no reason to say to myself that I wasn't really not crossing at
>> the corner. On the contrary, I'd own that I was taking the easy way.
>> The next day, if I were going back to the doctor to get medicine for
>> the person, I'd cross at the corner even though I was still going to
>> the doctor to help someone else.
>>
>> Not that that analogy completely fits Harry, since his taking the
>> easy way in Potions is not like my crossing the street in the
>> middle.
>
> Valky:
> Why isn't it? What is different about Harry's situation in your view?
> This looks to me like an excellent analogy of Harry's situation.

Magpie:
Because nobody's life depends on Harry having a slightly easier experience 
in Potions class in sixth year.

Valky:>
> 1. Potions Class is very much like a street Harry needs to cross on
> his way to save lives.

Magpie:
But how is it that? He doesn't have to take the class at all. I don't see 
how it would make any difference to anyone if he failed it--anyone except 
himself. It's not like he can't win against Voldemort if he doesn't bring 
with him a report card that shows him getting an A in the class.

Valky:
>
> 2. He's not crossing it according to the law of crossing streets, but
> in the greater context of saving the life walking up to the corner to
> cross wait for a green light isn't the best option.

Magpie:
He doesn't have to cross it and nobody except himself benefits from his not 
crossing it according to the law. In fact to a certain extent when you're 
talking about a class, which is supposed to be teaching you something, 
taking it without really taking it is a waste of time. Just as Harry's 
taking Divination was pretty much a waste of time.

Valky:>
> 3. He's under no delusions that he's crossing at the lights, he knows
> he's jaywalking. But still he chooses it because it seems well and
> truly the shortest and most right path to the person in need.

Magpie:
I see him knowing he's jaywalking, but I don't see him seeing it as the 
*right* path to him as a person in need, just the shortest. What would have 
happened if he'd not used the Prince's bezoar trick? Nobody would have been 
hurt, he'd be no less able to defeat Voldemort, he wouldn't have been less 
able to get the memory from Slughorn.

Valky:
> It doesn't mean he can't be wrong about this, you can be certain that
> jaywalking will ensure you get to someones aid most efficiently in
> order to save them.. then a truck can run you over. You can be wrong,
> of course and that is why it is not my position here to deny that.

Magpie:
But is there really canon that Harry sees it this way? Because while I 
wouldn't be surprised if occasionally he defended himself to other people 
with vague references to Voldemort, I don't remember ever getting the 
feeling that Harry connected his easy time in Potions to fighting Voldemort. 
It seems like even when he's talking about the Prince possibly being useful 
in that direction it's more about his spells.

Valky:
> My point is this - Harry's life is not an exercise in crossing streets > 
> anymore, it's an exercise in saving lives per the prophecy. The easy> way 
> in your analogy is not to save that persons life at all, because
> it's impossible to lawfully cross the street efficiently from where> you 
> stand. That's what I would call choosing easy but not necessarily> right. 
> In the greater context of the other persons life, that's
> pettiness.

Magpie:
And how does that analogy relate to Harry in this analogy? If he decides 
"not to cross the street at all" he's not any more or less close to saving 
anybody's life--he might just be a bit more honest, according to your 
description, because he'd actually be saying that since he's not interested 
in devoting his time to Potions he's not going to take the class. When Harry 
chooses not to take CoMC he doesn't seem to be choosing right or easy, 
because there's no conflict.

Valky:
> None of this is intended to argue that Harry is perfect, untainted, or
> what have you. As Mick was saying, I agree, this is a point of view
> that I felt needed to be raised when it seemed to me that the HBP
> cheat notes / morality debate was being nutted out extensively in a
> box that didn't accurately represent Harry Potter's life.

Magpie:
I do think part of the reason for that, though, is what Carol and Betsy have 
both described, that canon doesn't show us a Harry who's putting it in these 
terms. That Harry is happily putting "petty" concerns over Voldemort *a lot* 
in this book. And he's always been fairly blase about studying, like any 
other student.

Take Ron, for instance. Ron wants to be an Auror too, but he doesn't seem to 
take school more seriously than Harry despite not having the threat of 
Voldemort hanging over his head.

I thought when Pippin talked about Harry being an Auror, for instance, she 
wasn't claiming that previously Harry driven by a single-minded desire to be 
an auror. She was, I thought, that whether or not it's something that's 
really affecting his decisions right now, that *is* where he's going and 
that is what his school is therefore going to eventually be used towards. 
Just like when I was in eleventh grade I might not have approached all my 
classes with the idea of college at the forefront of my mind, but that's 
where it was all eventually going.



Valky:
> ...anyhoo, I'll leave the last word to you Magpie, thanks much for
> sharing the floor with me :)

Magpie:
Right back atcha!:-)

-m