On the trivial and the profound

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 165457

>  "Magpie" <belviso@> wrote:
> 
> > The trouble with Snape's murder 
> > of Dumbledore is canon itself obviously 
> > sets it up as a mystery. We don't yet 
> > know exactly what or why he was doing it, 
> 
> It's only a mystery if you insist on making it mysterious; the 
events
> on that tower were pretty straightforward. It's as if I were to say
> Harry had a wonderful reason for not telling the authorities about 
the
> potions book, but we readers just haven't been informed of it yet.
> Snape always gets a free pass, Harry and Hermione never do.

Magpie:
I really don't think I'm the one making it a mystery. The whole 
build-up to DH is pretty much based on it. It really just doesn't 
seem believable to me that Dumbledore, the wise old man on the good 
guy, was fooled by a bunch of DEs because their cynical view of 
people is the right one. I think the context behind those 
straightforwad events on the Tower have been blatantly presented as 
a mystery. Harry's reasons for not keeping the Potions book to 
himself have not been presented as a mystery. We were in his head at 
the time.

This has nothing to do with liking Snape or giving him a free pass. 
It's more about reading a lot of books and having certain instincts 
based on how they go, and putting together lots of information 
throughout the series.

Eggplant: 
> > My own view that Harry is giving himself
> > an advantage is not at all based on my
> > being "saintly" or thinking I would never
> > do such a thing. 
> 
> I'd like to make 3 points:
> 
> 1) Giving yourself an advantage is not a vice, it is a virtue.
> 
> 2) Not only would I have done exactly the same thing that Harry 
did I
> would not feel one second of guilt about it.

Magpie:
Yes, you've made it clear you would not feel a second of guilt about 
most things Harry does or you would do--and that you'd possibly 
consider any suggestion either of you should feel guilty offensive. 

But I don't know what definition of "virtue" you're working with if 
you think "giving yourself an advantage" qualifies. There are plenty 
of ways to give yourself an advantage and they're not all virtuous. 
One has nothing to do with the other. Working hard at something is a 
virtuous way of giving yourself an advantage. Hiring someone to 
break the legs of your competition would hardly be described so. So 
I'm going to have to say that giving yourself an advantage is 
neither a virtue or a vice. It depends on what you're doing.

Eggplant:
> 
> 3) Harry is entitled to have secrets. The teachers don't tell Harry
> everything and Harry has a right to return the favor.   

Magpie:
Sure he's entitled to have secrets. That doesn't make what he's 
doing not dishonest. There are lots of different kinds of secrets 
and ways to keep them or use them.

> >> Me:
> >> I would MUCH rather drink a potion prepared
> >> by someone familiar with Snape's instruction
> >> than from someone who only knew the idiotic
> >> standard textbook methods.
> 
> >Magpie:
> >All the more reason for the instructions to not
> > be hoarded by Harry for his own advantage 

Eggplant:
> 
> People love to criticize Harry (I don't pretend to know why), if 
one
> reason for doing so gets shot down try another. If there had been a
> scene in one of the books of Snape in his chambers consulting a 
very
> rare old potions book I doubt we would have heard one word of
> criticism from anybody because Snape has that all important Free 
Pass,
> Harry has never even seen one.

Magpie:
I don't think we can always know what "people" are loving to do when 
they disagree with us. Most of your descriptions of why and how 
people disagree with your position could just as easily be applied 
to yourself and that wouldn't make them true. I don't think seeing 
Harry's faking his ability at Potions as dishonest has to come from 
a love of criticizing Harry. Sometimes people just see things 
differently. Your defenses of Harry can be just as easily described 
as trying new things as each one gets shot down. The fact that it 
would be best for the class to all learn the Potions correctly seems 
to follow logically from your own claim that it's good for Harry to 
use the right instructions.

I'm not interested in coming up with a  fictional Snape vs. Harry 
debate on this subject (especially one that hops back to the idea 
that Harry's doing extra Potions research himself). There aren't any 
parallels between Snape and Harry in this particular instance, and I 
see as little benefit in arguing whether Snape would be defended in 
this situation (any more than I see a point in arguing that if Harry 
joined the Death Eaters he wouldn't be criticized for it). I'm sure 
he would be--just as Harry's being defended here. And in both cases 
there would be other people describing what they thought would be 
the right thing to do, whether or not they liked the character or 
not. Impatience with one character being given a free pass doesn't 
make one immune from ever doing the same thing for characters one 
likes.

-m