Dumbledore's attitude (was Re: On lying and cheating)

[lupinlore]

No: HPFGUIDX 165476

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Magpie" <belviso at ...> wrote:
>

> 
> Magpie:
> I don't see that it really matters whether an academic advantage is 
foremost 
> in Harry's mind when he does it. It seems like you're whole argument 
is that 
> things like academic honesty are petty when you're a guy like Harry 
who's 
> got the weight of the world on his shoulders. And that's a possible 
> position, but these things being "petty" in Harry's eyes doesn't mean 
> Harry's not taking the easy way over the right way in his Potions 
class 
> sixth year. 

Ahhh, right versus easy, the babbling of Dumbledore <g>.  Yet, what 
kind of messages is the "epitome of goodness" giving Harry with regard 
to Sluggy?  Let us stipulate that the particular matter of the book 
never arises -- even after the episode with Draco (and one wonders what 
kind of discussions DD and Snapey-poo had after that one!).  Still, DD 
gives Harry many messages with regard to Sluggy, and they aren't ones 
that emphasize respect and honesty.

>From the very beginning, the attitude DD evinces toward Sluggy seems to 
one of disrespect and, let's face it, condescension.  He makes clear at 
the very beginning that he is using Harry as "bait" to lure Sluggy back 
to Hogwarts, and tells Harry very specifically to be very careful and 
wary around his new teacher. Not a very good beginning, if you are 
thinking of a student/teacher relationship.  And who's lead is Harry 
supposed to follow, that of some mythical "responsible adult" who 
doesn't exist in his life, or of DD who for all his extreme faults 
(particularly with regard to allowing Harry to be abused by Snape and 
the Dursleys), is after all the Headmaster and Sluggy's employer?

As things events develop during HBP, it becomes clear that DD only 
wants Sluggy at Hogwarts for the purpose of ferreting out what he knows 
about Tom Riddle.  He indeed makes no bones about it.  Once again, not 
a builder of respect and honesty.  And finally, to put the crown on the 
situation, he makes clear that he is very annoyed at Harry because 
Harry has not been crafty, manipulative, and dishonest ENOUGH in his 
dealings with Sluggy.  And, if we are to judge by his snippet of 
conversation with Nigellus, he is supremely proud of his belief in 
Harry's ability to be crafty, ruthless, and dishonest in dealing with 
the new Potions master.

So, Harry is supposed to step aside from this situation and say, "Well, 
let's be philosophical about this.  I should do what is right, not what 
is easy, in my dealings with the new Potions teacher although the very 
man who talks about right vs. easy has expressed annoyance that I have 
not treated said teacher with dishonesty, craftiness, and manipulative 
lies and distortions.  Well, obviously, however, these are two 
different situations under the rubrics of academic regulation and moral 
theory, and therefore I should make a clear demarcation between 
spinning a very elaborate and deliberate web of untruth in order to 
trick my teacher into revealing a memory he is very desperately trying 
to keep hidden, as opposed to simply keeping silent with regard to some 
notes in an old potions book that my teacher HIMSELF gave to me.  
Because obviously DD doesn't REALLY mean it when he expresses his 
annoyance and implies his lack of respect for Sluggy, and obviously 
it's MUCH more important that I rigorously reveal every detail with 
regard to a potions book than that I refrain from spinning a delberate 
web of lies and manipulation in order to overcome my teacher's defenses 
erected around a memory he obviously doesn't want to share.  I mean, 
the formal rules of moral philosophy make this absolutely clear!  I'll 
spend my evenings working out the symbolic logic of the situation!"

Yeah, right.


Lupinlore, who thinks of all the moral problems that arise in the 
Potterverse, this is easily the most overblown