Lying vs Murder (was:Re: On lying and cheating/ Killing DD)

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 165502

DA (Mike as Devil's Advocate) wrote:
> <snip> But doesn't Harry's potion genius rep cause Slughorn to make
the connection between Harry and Lily? Doesn't this later allow Harry
to play off the supposed connection when he's trying to worm that
memory out of Slughorn? <snip>

Carol responds:

Actually, no. Slughorn makes the connection between Harry and Lily
based on their eyes when he and Harry first meet:

"'Except for your eyes. You've got--'

"'My mother's eyes. Yeah.' . . . .

"'Hmpf. Yes, well. You shouldn't have favorites as a teacher of course
but she was one of mine. Your mother . . . . Lily Evans. One of the
brightest I ever taught. Vivacious, you know. Charming girl. I used to
tell her she should have been in my House. [Hm. Why hasn't anyone
commented on Lily's Slytherin tendencies?] Very cheeky answers I used
to get back too." (HBP Am. ed. 19-20)

So, in contrast to Snape and Sirius Black, who are apparently looking
for James in Harry, guilt-stricken Slughorn is looking for Lily in
Harry: "cheek," Potions ability, and all. And since he has her eyes,
he must have those other traits, just as he has James's "arrogance"
and recklessness, right? The adults see what they expect, and want, to
see. And Slughorn is already interested in "collecting" Harry before
he sees his supposed Potions brilliance, which is how DD lures him
into accepting the Potions position.

As for Harry's false reputation as Potions genius (surely you conced,
Mike, that the Potions genius is Teen!Snape) ostensibly leading to his
acquiring the memory, the unintended consequences of an action don't
make the action itself right or wrong--and the consequences *are*
unntended--Harry doesn't start taking credit for the HBP's brilliance
intending to get a memory he doesn't yet know about from Slughorn. And
even if he did, the end doesn't justify the means.

But choices and actions have unintended consequences in the HP books
(as in RL) that have nothing to do with the rightness or wrongness of
the choice itself. Harry's preventing Lupin and Black from murdering
Pettigrew leads (along with Lupin's transformation) to Pettigrew's
escape. That doesn't make Harry's action in preventing his father's
friends from committing murder wrong. Snape's eavesdropping,
Pettigrew's betrayal of the Potters, and Voldemort's murder of Lily
lead to Voldemort's vaporization and Harry's becoming the Chosen One.
Those unintended good consequences don't make the actions that led to
them good or right. Nor do the good consequences attained as the
result of Harry's "winning" the Felix Felicis through academic
dishonesty make the academic dishonesty right. If Hermione had won it,
as she deserved to do, she might well have given it to Harry, who
needed it more than she did. And if she hadn't, he'd simply have had
to use his wits to get the memory. (Felix Felicis in itself could be
regarded as a kind of cheating, which is why its use, like the use of
steroids in the Muggle world, is banned in athletic competitions and
exams.)

In any case, it's Slughorn's guilt over Lily's death, not Harry's
Potions genius reputation, that leads him to yield up the memory after
Harry gets him drunk. Harry takes advantage of Slughorn's fondness for
Lily and his remorse over his part in her death (providing information
on Horcruxes to Tom Riddle, who otherwise would not have known that
murder splits the soul and a soul bit can be encased in a Horcrux,
anchoring the main soul to the earth. That information is not
available from the Hogwarts library, as we know).

Carol, deleting her original sign off, which was more unkind than
clever, and apologizing to Mike